Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

goodness Maudi - according to international law, asylum should be ranted to those at risk of persecution or death in the country they come from. Interesting that those who died yesterday are "migrants" not "people", with the attendant lives, hopes and dreams. If 30 people had drowned on a Thames cruiser there would be a public enquiry - here we blame the people smugglers. Fleeing persecution, abortion, alcohol and drugs and all other things which govts have attempted to make illegal will not stop people wanting them, it simply makes the means of acquisition more dangerous, and creates wealth for the criminal class which provides it. Have we learned nothing fro history?

I find it hard to understand the mindset of migrants boarding these hugely overcrowded inflatables. Wouldn’t warning bells have rung? They were already in a safe country, France so they had fulfilled their desire for safety.
I agree, JenniferEccles. Politics aside, what possesses these people to do this when the risk of drowning is so high? I was watching a documentary about WW2 PoW's escaping from camps this week and the historian said young men are often (recklessly) up for the adventure, despite the dangers involved. Of course, that can't be true for women with children. More tragic accidents with loss of life will inevitably happen at sea.

I have only met a few young asylum seekers in a centre near here, but they said that while France was doing a lot to help and support them, they wanted to join family already in the UK.

How many times....?

Its clear that there is a subset of people who are unwilling to even try to assimilate the actual truth of what is going on. There is an opinion that goes along the lines of "well anyone can see its dangerous, why do they do it?" and "what we need to do is just break international law and tell them they can't claim asylum."

Firstly; they are probably so desperate to get here that they think its worth taking the chance on the channel. Also, if you come from a few thousand miles away, how do you know how dangerous the Channel is? You can see the other side from Calais, when they set out its usually calm. If you are that close to your goal, why would you not try it? How many of us know the status of bodies of water thousands of miles away from our homes?

Secondly, you can't stop people arriving here any way they like and then claiming asylum. That is how international law works. I think that the question comes down to what we think the crisis is; I think the crisis is that there are so many people who are in such dire straits and who are willing to take all these chances because they want to come to the UK, to work here and to make new lives for themselves and their families. Others seem to think that the crisis is to do with scroungers arriving on the south coast that need to be stopped at all costs.

How else can they get here???
They can’t apply for asylum until they are here.

On what legal grounds?

Why should we refuse asylum? Why should some other country take them?

I find it hard to understand the mindset of migrants boarding these hugely overcrowded inflatables. Wouldn’t warning bells have rung? They were already in a safe country, France so they had fulfilled their desire for safety.

What do we offer that France, or all the other safe countries they passed through don’t?

That’s the crux of the matter.

I believe there’s talk of doing what is obvious, and that’s to make it clear that boat migrants will automatically have their application refused,

As far as I can see it’s the only way to stop this influx, and of course stop the tragic deaths in the Channel.

A couple of things I heard on the news at lunchtime from Peter Walsh from Oxford university
1. You cannot claim asylum in the UK unless you are IN the UK

2. We are behind France Germany Italy Spain in the numbers of asylum seekers we take.

Sorry, I keep meaning to go and do something else then I read something daft.

since all potential immigrants destroy their id documents

What?!?!? We really are living in a world of completely made up sound bites

Alegrias1

Greciangirl

Yes. Macron certainly has blood on his hands.

Let’s face it. The french don’t like us and apparently couldn’t care less what happens to migrants, just so long as they don’t have to deal with them.

I’m astounded at the millions we have paid them to do bugger all.

Nothing seems to be done to try and catch the smugglers.
Surely a bit of detective work around the french camps, boat companies etc. This is the crux of the problem.
Apparently, french strict data protection laws means that aerial surveillance equipment provided by the UK has not been used.
It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Priti Patel ought to resign and see if someone else can do a better job.

Oh, FGS...RTFT

Now I've run out of acronyms

But yes, I'd be happy to see the back of Patel. And the rest of them.

I very much doubt Patel will resign. She is just as deluded as the PM and the rest of the Cabinet, convinced she is doing a great job. Heaven help us.

It has been said one of the deceased was an Afghan soldier serving with the British Army. May I point out that it is less than 24 hours since the tragedy occurred, and since all potential immigrants destroy their id documents, it is impossible to know with any certainty who they are and where they originate from.

Well, having owned and sailed a 25ft boat across the Channel and down the French canals numerous times in the 70's and 80's with DH and two DC I can honestly say that the thought of attempting to cross the English channel in a tender ( rubber dinghy) with a less than adequate outboard motor among other things even in calm weather, fills me with complete horror. When I remember the preparation and safety equipment we had to have even for a daytrip round the IOW , the fact that these poor souls are being encouraged to set off ill prepared into such danger is just wicked. The sea is a dangerous, at times frightening place , wind changes, tide fluctuation, fog, shipping, and many other dangers even for the most seasoned sailors nevermind amateurs who have probably never been been in a boat before. I pray for the day these nightmare journeys are stopped before more accidents happen and more lives are lost.

They should be prevented from getting into the dinghies in the first place in France.I cannot imagine the RNLI not rescuing anyone and in those circumstances there is no way they are going to let anyone drown.

Greciangirl

Yes. Macron certainly has blood on his hands.

Let’s face it. The french don’t like us and apparently couldn’t care less what happens to migrants, just so long as they don’t have to deal with them.

I’m astounded at the millions we have paid them to do bugger all.

Nothing seems to be done to try and catch the smugglers.
Surely a bit of detective work around the french camps, boat companies etc. This is the crux of the problem.
Apparently, french strict data protection laws means that aerial surveillance equipment provided by the UK has not been used.
It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Priti Patel ought to resign and see if someone else can do a better job.

Oh, FGS...RTFT

Now I've run out of acronyms

But yes, I'd be happy to see the back of Patel. And the rest of them.

Yes. Macron certainly has blood on his hands.

Let’s face it. The french don’t like us and apparently couldn’t care less what happens to migrants, just so long as they don’t have to deal with them.

I’m astounded at the millions we have paid them to do bugger all.

Nothing seems to be done to try and catch the smugglers.
Surely a bit of detective work around the french camps, boat companies etc. This is the crux of the problem.
Apparently, french strict data protection laws means that aerial surveillance equipment provided by the UK has not been used.
It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Priti Patel ought to resign and see if someone else can do a better job.

growstuff

I haven't scrolled back to see what you're replying to. Yes, it's true that most people don't speak English, but it is true that English is the most widely spoken second language and is one of the reasons that some migrants choose the UK rather than other countries.

Its not worth it growstuff. I was feeling frivolous

Thisismyname1953

What worries me , if boat owners are allowed to rescue people from the channel , it may encourage unscrupulous gangs to arrange to pick up migrants mid-channel for a fee . Saying that they had rescued them . It could become a big money making business for them .

And you honestly think that the RNLI would get involved in something like that?

PS. That kind of thing is already happening. Do you not remember the case of the lorry driver who picked up the container with 39 dead Vietnamese migrants?

I haven't scrolled back to see what you're replying to. Yes, it's true that most people don't speak English, but it is true that English is the most widely spoken second language and is one of the reasons that some migrants choose the UK rather than other countries.

What worries me , if boat owners are allowed to rescue people from the channel , it may encourage unscrupulous gangs to arrange to pick up migrants mid-channel for a fee . Saying that they had rescued them . It could become a big money making business for them .

growstuff

Alegrias1

2 billion people in the world speak English. There's getting on for 8 billion people in the world.

2 billion isn't most of 8 billion.

Just thought I drop that in. Can't let made up statistics stand unchallenged, can we?

As you were.

But more people speak English as a foreign language than French or German.

Ah, very true, but still not most of the world

I might mention English exceptionalism, but I'd get piled on for that.

Maudi

17:20Whitewavemark2

I'm sure most on here will be dead and buried by then.

And to hell with the rest, I suppose?

Alegrias1

2 billion people in the world speak English. There's getting on for 8 billion people in the world.

2 billion isn't most of 8 billion.

Just thought I drop that in. Can't let made up statistics stand unchallenged, can we?

As you were.

But more people speak English as a foreign language than French or German.

WonderBra

growstuff

Gabrielle56

I just luuuurve how the wealthy and famous are quick to criticize everyone else about being nasty to the poor refugees and how we should ll give up our life savings to help them........yet I've not been able to find any instances of these same eejits opening their considerable homes(plural in many cases) to help house these poor souls once they land, ?

Michael Rosen doesn't have a considerable home.

I believe Gary Lineker has taken in and housed a few refugees.

Gary Lineker has taken in only one refugee for a few months. Recently he claimed to be going to take in one more. He hasn’t yet or he would have publicised it.

growstuff

WonderBra

I'm a taxpayer, been working full time since I was 16, and for many years of that in very low paid jobs.

With the approx 80,000 asylum seekers in the UK at the moment, who receive just under £40 each per week, that costs me (one of currently just over £30,000,000 taxpayers in the UK ) the massive sum of 9p per week. In actual fact, I probably pay a lot less than that, as a lower rate taxpayer.
For less than 2p a day, I am absolutely happy to support these poor, scared, homeless people who have been in the absolutely devastating position of losing pretty much everything. To be honest, I'd happily pay an awful lot more.

I can't begin to imagine what desperation they must be going through, to even attempt the over-land journeys, let alone the sea crossings. They are human, many well educated, but regardless, human.

I really can't begin to understand those who would rather they drowned. These people are a valuable asset to our country, but regardless of whether they have any economic value to us, they are human.

Where is our compassion?

Just a small point, but there are far more than 30 million taxpayers in the UK. Only (about) 25% of the tax paid in the UK is income tax. Most of it comes from other sources such as VAT. It's impossible to escape paying tax in the UK. Therefore, we are all paying less than 9p each.

The 30,000,000 was just a low figure, from what I googled - and as you rightly said, just income tax, so yes, I probably personally pay less than a penny a day - as would the majority here.
How can anyone begrudge that?