Why is this happening?

Good post Zoejory. I was trying to word something similar but you expressed what I wanted to say.

I think all generations bemoan how bad the current generation has become and think its much more violent than it used to be

Forsythia

prestbury

Forsythia

Weak or no sentences and do-Gooders making excuses for them means this will continue. When I was growing up in the 60’s/70’s this kind of thing didn’t happen on the scale it does today. If it did, it was front page news, on the TV and talked about for a long time. Now, it’s tomorrow’s chip paper and quickly forgotten. Knife crime just didn’t happen then. Now, it’s a brave woman who ventures out during dark hours,

I think you may be quoting your memories of the 60's and 70's from behind rose tinted glasses.

Youngsters were likely to prowl the streets with knives in the 60's and many young girls carried knives, difference being possibly that they were then just for show, even in the 50's no self respecting Teddy Boy would be seen without a switchblade, and use it.

For England & Wales murders in the 60's were around 300 and 400 per year on average and rising rapidly in the early 70's. In 1974 there were 600 murders, same as 2020/2021, remembering of course that the population was much smaller then so pro rata murders were worse than today..

Figures were taken from the governement historical crime data

I think that may depend on where you lived at the time. I’m sure in inner cities knife crime was prevalent but now it is widespread regardless of where you live. School kids weren’t stabbing each other to death regularly as a result of feeling ‘disrespected’ in the 60/70’s and I’ve lived all my life in south London.

I can only quote the official England & Wales stats for that period and I'm sure they were not all from inner cities.

This is not only happening in Britain. I watch an American TV series called True Crime. Murder is a lot more common over there. If caught they usually get stiffer sentences than our namby pamby judges dole out. 50 years is not uncommon.

Nearer home my 24 year old grandson who is studying in Spain was mugged while walking with his friend. He had his jaw broken and his phone pinched. His friend had his wallet stolen. Neither could identify their attackers. And don't talk about South Africa where 50 murders a day take place.

Murder is a lot more common over there. If caught they usually get stiffer sentences than our namby pamby judges dole out.

Not working as much of a deterrent then, is it?

It’s not a case of whether we’re more, or less, violent than in the past, but of how much more enlightened we as a society should be by now.
We have the tools and the knowledge, but we’re failing to use them to effect real change in respect of violence (of all kinds).

I need to stop listening to true crime American podcasts, they are bonkers, always involve the police bringing in psychics and 9 out of 10 times the perpetrator is the preacher.

I thought this today also, seems to be a lot more rife these days. Makes me wonder what goes through the persons head that allows them to feel it’s ok to go that far.

To my children's great frustration, even with one moved out and another who may as well be, I have always worried over their safety.

The thing is that I know and understand how quickly a human life can be snatched away.

Knowing there are people out there who do that, who destroy a life, is just impossible to understand or come to terms with

When I grew up in a poor part of London, depicted as a rough area, I lived a peaceful life to adulthood, had a good education at an oustandingly well rated (local) school, and did not witness one act of real violence in all that time. I saw perhaps two or three 'scuffles' in my youth and teenage years that involved some pushing and shoving, and the occasional punch. Now, it seems, looking at someone the wrong way results in your being stabbed to death. We have a knife and gun culture here now, and once these weapons are used there is no going back. Why is this - and how has it developed?

Forsythia
Very good post. You are bang on the mark with the feral society becoming more mainstream.

As for viewing the past through rose tinted glasses - not true. It is more violent out there. Schoolboys being stabbed and doing the stabbing. This was not happening with the regularity it is now.

Prison sentences are getting longer - minimums of 35 yrs is commonplace now but still it doesn’t stop them.

Kids of 12-15 out until all hours. It’s not right and lack of decent parenting does play a part.

I have a friend who’s a lecturer. He’s European and in his late 30’s. He believes we are doing our youngsters a great disservice in this country with our over tolerance of poor behaviour. He tells of teenagers waltzing into lectures late, high fiving their mates and generally being bad mannered. No apologies, no care about disturbing the class and the teacher.

No one should want a return to the days of kids being beaten in schools but there needs to be a reset in our attitudes to what is acceptable and what isn’t.

tickingbird

Forsythia
Very good post. You are bang on the mark with the feral society becoming more mainstream.

As for viewing the past through rose tinted glasses - not true. It is more violent out there. Schoolboys being stabbed and doing the stabbing. This was not happening with the regularity it is now.

Prison sentences are getting longer - minimums of 35 yrs is commonplace now but still it doesn’t stop them.

Kids of 12-15 out until all hours. It’s not right and lack of decent parenting does play a part.

I have a friend who’s a lecturer. He’s European and in his late 30’s. He believes we are doing our youngsters a great disservice in this country with our over tolerance of poor behaviour. He tells of teenagers waltzing into lectures late, high fiving their mates and generally being bad mannered. No apologies, no care about disturbing the class and the teacher.

No one should want a return to the days of kids being beaten in schools but there needs to be a reset in our attitudes to what is acceptable and what isn’t.

Having worked in inner city secondary schools, your colleague is quite right. In some cases it is just crowd control and I am so glad I’m no longer working in them as it has got so much worse. I also agree with Rosinas post as I too lived a similar life to that she describes. The level of violence was just not there then whatever others may say. It didn’t happen. Kids weren’t stabbing each other for a wrong look.

From ONS National Crime Statistics:

Victimisation rates have decreased from 4.7% of adults being a victim of violent crime in 1995 to 1.6% in the year ending March 2020; however, rates have remained fairly flat since the year ending March 2014.

The total number of incidents has decreased 72% from a peak of 4.5 million incidents in 1995 to 1.2 million incidents in the year ending March 2020; although there was no significant change in the last year, the downward trend has continued in recent years with the number of incidents decreasing 28% compared with the year ending March 2015 (1.7 million incidents).

The fall in total number of incidents since the year ending March 2015 was driven by a 41% reduction in repeat incidents, from 1.1 million incidents in the year ending March 2015 to 650,000 in the year ending March 2020.

That doesn't conflict with the assertion that young people are more violent amongst themselves, but overall the number of incidences of violence are falling. No rose tinted spectacles required.

Oh, for heavens sake NICK FLETCHER - Diddums!

Just listen to yourself.

Boys have access to porn and violent videos from a young age now. Also girls of course, but it normalises sex domineering and gang sex and fights are videoed, there is no line now. It’s very worrying really…

Seriously, Algerias?? Is everything down to statistics and links? It is more violent. For goodness sake open your eyes.

Prisons are full, schools are locked as are hospital wards. Why? Nothing’s changed according to your statistics. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes with some of you. Let’s pretend it’s not happening.

tickingbird

Seriously, Algerias?? Is everything down to statistics and links? It is more violent. For goodness sake open your eyes.

Prisons are full, schools are locked as are hospital wards. Why? Nothing’s changed according to your statistics. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes with some of you. Let’s pretend it’s not happening.

Random people on the internet say the world is more violent.

Office of National Statistics says its not more violent.

Who shall I believe?

They're not my statistics, you could have found them too if you'd bothered to look. Relying on anecdotes about how the world has got much worse since I was a girl won't change the fact that it hasn't.

Lets not pretend there's no violence. Let's try to do something about it that doesn't include railing against the fact that our "namby pamby" judges don't give longer sentences that don't work anyway.

Chewbacca where did you get that list of names from please?

Chewbacca

I saw that too Callistemon and was stunned that, yet again, women who are seen to achieve anything are seen as "taking away from men". I'm so sick of women having their hard fought for rights taken away from them, be blamed for the inadequacies and failures of men and then be murdered by men because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There are more names to add to that list kalu, those murdered between January - March and then October to now.

I so agree with this Chewbacca So many times events are blamed on anything but the perpetrators! Whether it be the victims clothes, location, drinking habits,behaviours, success, attitude, language, history, place of birth, religion ...and many more I am sure. !!

The Guardian lemsip

There's no need to bring curfew or lockdown back to keep crime down, because that is social control. The lads that murdered this poor girl are psychopaths and I blame the parents for that. They must have had behaviour problems from a very early age, but the parents closed their eyes to it instead of taking their children to psychologists. No double they will go to a "finishing school" oh sorry young offenders institution. Let them go to a an adult prison when they are sentenced and let the parents face some sort of retribution too because this is the fault of the parents.

Has anyone else on here had problems with the Mumsnet site. I realise this is Gransnet but I just cannot find an email address for Mumsnet and for over a week I have been unable to open any posts. It returns a message that the site has "crashed". I have had no problems with any other site/emails. Thank you

Severnsider

I think a lot of the atrocities are committed by men high on drugs. Not completely responsible for their actions. It's an enormous problem and something the authorities don't seem to be doing anything about. Until they do, young women will continue to suffer.

Men high on drugs are absolutely completely responsible for their actions.

What a ridiculous statement

tickingbird

The ONS is reliant upon statistics provided by police forces. There is now a standard for this as it was previously inconsistent.
Lockdowns may have seen a rise in different types of crime being reported eg fraud, and there could be fewer in other types of crime.

The lads that murdered this poor girl are psychopaths
Has that been established beyond doubt, songstress?

Women do want it all....well, some women.

No, they want what men have always had.

How very dare they