Why is this happening?

Calistemon,

I am NOT blaming the victim at all but i think parents have the responsibility to keep their children safe. The same goes for the boys involved. I have years of teaching experience and i have chlldren and gchildren and two g grandchildren and your idle remarks annoy me!

Victim blaming again.

The accused boys are also very young.
Young or not, they were carrying knives/a knife. They stabbed her to kill her. She must have been terrified to find herself facing four boys with knives. Four boys, and one helpless little girl.

It may not have been dark when they went and it was only 8.30 at night, not late. She was with a group of friends to see the switching on of Christmas lights, a happy, joyous occasion.

Why were boys there with knives is the question we should be asking.

I read the front page. The first thing i wondered is what is a girl doing out at night in the city centre at the age of 12? I am a Liverpudlian from long ago and we never went out into the city at night! I can see i am old fashioned! The accused boys are also very young. Did you let your children go out after dark into a big city centre? Just asking?

There is also a lot of unfairness in society - footballers and musicians for example earn more money than they can possibly use in a lifetime (if sensible) yet nurses and care workers are poorly paid. We don't NEED football but we do NEED nurses and care workers!

I think the point you are missing is that footballers and musicians are not paid out of the public purse. Being a footballer is a profession, and football is a business. It will pay the 'market' price and, bearing in mind that most professional footballers have a relatively short career, that price is high. But, we have a choice - we can choose to watch football or buy a musician's recordings. And we do, because they are popular forms of entertainment - hence the high earnings.

Nurses and health care workers, on the other hand, are paid from the public purse and their pay is linked to what governments decide on public spending.

So the comparison between the two is pointless. If we choose to stop watching football or listening to musicians, it will not make one scrap of difference to the funding of the NHS.

But you are right in your observation that we live in a very unequal society, with low-pay and job insecurity being the lot for many young people today. Their futures look bleak. And TV, social media, the 'net have hyped up consumerism, kids want what they see on offer and many family budgets just don't allow for this.

It’s when the transition from primary school to secondary school starts that things start to go wrong. Mostly, boys at primary aren’t stabbing one another. Yes you do get behavioural problems, bullying, but not at the level that happens once they go to secondary school. That being said, there needs to be early intervention so that those with behavioural problems are dealt with correctly and a few days exclusion is not addressing the problem. The home life is key to those committing these crimes, no doubt about that. However, it is not all down to childminders, nannies and working mums. It is the home environment that they live in.

CvD66

Excellent post!

There are plenty of us...women, who also don’t want a female Dr. Who, or James Bond

I am sure there are female spies.
James Bond is outdated and sexist anyway.

Nick Fletcher should focus on the examples being set by his own colleagues in the government. Not least a PM who has made a career of cheating on his 1st wife and who recently spoke about 'buyer's remote' in respect of his current wife as a 'joke'. How about a bullying Home Secretary (and a PM who let her off while paying thousands to cover up her bullying of senior civil servants). Blaming TV and film producers for trying to expand representation in their field is merely highlighting his discomfort with women being represented as equal to men. We need strong and informed police forces which sadly after 10 years of Tory reign, we do not have! When you have police arresting women at a silent vigil for the murder of a women by a policeman but turning a blind eye to far right mainly male demonstrations, you have to ask what messages are being offered to men and their relationships with/protection of women!

maddyone

I just think it’s all very sad. The little girl of twelve who was viciously murdered by four older boys, oh my God, that poor child. Four of them! Bullies! I hope they get a sentence that fits the crime. I’m not optimistic though.

Me neither, maddyone.

I worry about our DGC.

There are plenty of us...women, who also don’t want a female Dr. Who, or James Bond

When I talked about ‘ working women’ paperbackwriter, I wasn’t meaning those who have to put food on the table. I’m talking about the people who choose it over looking after their children.

I really don't quite know what to say - this is absurd.

Dr Who and Mr Bond are fictional characters - this is entertainment, literature, acting... a world that is separate from every day life. The 'arts' world is free to express itself in whichever way it chooses - that is the point of Art.

You have a choice - if you don't like the subject matter, you really don't have to watch, read or look.

And if men are so insecure that an entertaining piece of science fiction with a woman as the main character makes them feel threatened, then the problem is with them.

As for "working women" who have to "put food on the table". These women need well-paying jobs. How do they get them other than by entering into the professions, by studying, by taking exams, by getting degrees - by doing the same jobs that men take for granted?
And if they are married with a family, they have to fit this in with those commitments. Which means they might have to employ someone to look after their children.
What you are basically saying - and it can't be interpreted any other way, is that women with young children should only work if they have to, to make ends meet. If they have no qualifications, then what jobs should they do - cleaning, shop work, just the menial work that can be fitted around their duties at home? And low paid work at that.

This is the 40s / 50s mentality - where women were sometimes allowed by their husbands to work for 'pin' money, or to help out with the family budget. Is that what you want us to return to?

Finally, do you have any concrete proof that the children of women who work and are looked after by a child-minder or nanny, are statistically more likely to be the violent offenders?

I just think it’s all very sad. The little girl of twelve who was viciously murdered by four older boys, oh my God, that poor child. Four of them! Bullies! I hope they get a sentence that fits the crime. I’m not optimistic though.

The figures for young people being murdered in London this year is the highest for a decade and we are still in November.

Do you think they’re immune from being attacked out late at night?

No, we do know they're not Discodancer, the reasons for such random crimes are complex.

I did say that the Office for National Statistics is reliant upon Police Forces reporting various crime numbers and their categories.

Lockdown has had an effect on crime too.

Chewbacca

^Women do want it all....well, some women.^

You mean like be able to go about our business and not be followed, stalked and harassed? Or go alone out at night and not be fearful that a man has his eye on us and is just waiting for the right moment to strike? Or do all the things that a man doesn't think twice about doing and know that we'll be left alone to do them? If that's what you mean I WANT IT ALL

My following paragraph was quite clear, that of course women should be able to do these things, but we can’t, as can’t many men either. Do you think they’re immune from being attacked out late at night? My husband was assaulted in the seventies, and had his nose broken. His assailant was fined a measly sum in court. He was stabbed a few weeks later. Completely unconnected to my husband.

Our own son was assaulted in a night club about 15 years ago. They were guys...but were egged on by a girl.

I’ve heard numerous tales of assaults on young men. Women don’t have the monopoly on it.

I would be very careful how I conduct myself out and about, day or night. I think men should be too. We need to take responsibility for ourselves.

A friend, who knows a policeman investigating the stabbing of the 12 year old girl,says that the girl and her friends were out in the city with the accused boys . They were all drinking and got into an argument resulting in this dreadful event. Obviously I don't condone carrying knives but it sounds like the parents of all the children were not doing a very good job.

Janipans. I may be especially dense today as I’m ill but I don’t see what point you are actually making ?

tickingbird

Seriously, Algerias?? Is everything down to statistics and links? It is more violent. For goodness sake open your eyes.

Prisons are full, schools are locked as are hospital wards. Why? Nothing’s changed according to your statistics. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes with some of you. Let’s pretend it’s not happening.

How are things “more violent” when statistics show it literally isn’t?

What do you have against real statistics? The fact that it doesn’t line up with your opinion?

I have just had a quick look at the 127 women killed this year, of that number 90 were killed by men over 30. Many many by men in their forties and fifties so possibly the modern mothers thing isnt applicable.

Women do want it all....well, some women.

You mean like be able to go about our business and not be followed, stalked and harassed? Or go alone out at night and not be fearful that a man has his eye on us and is just waiting for the right moment to strike? Or do all the things that a man doesn't think twice about doing and know that we'll be left alone to do them? If that's what you mean I WANT IT ALL

Summerlove

*Women do want it all....well, some women.*

No, they want what men have always had.

How very dare they

They even want to walk down a street, catch a bus to meet friends, picnic in a park safely when they should stay at home.

This may be contentious but in our youth children were brought up by mums who loved them, not childminders who look after them as their job. Also, people in work had job security and work related pensions and although we had less in the way of material belongings - what we had, we had to work hard to get and so it was appreciated and valued and looked after, passed on rather than thrown away etc. Nowadays, expectations are so high they are often unattainable within the budgets people have so there is a lot of envy and unrest.
There is also a lot of unfairness in society - footballers and musicians for example earn more money than they can possibly use in a lifetime (if sensible) yet nurses and care workers are poorly paid. We don't NEED football but we do NEED nurses and care workers!
I have no idea really how we address the balance. Maybe to change the tax and benefits system, so that everyone (including those on benefits and pensioners should be paid (or have as their untaxed income), the same amount of money, which would allow them to have a decent life (including a small amount of free income to spend on treats). BUT benefits must be very carefully considered so that only those who genuinely need them get them.
VAT and road taxes and death duties and stamp duties and all benefits (including child benefits - nobody should expect to be paid by the taxpayer for having lots of children) should be abandoned and there should be one standard rate of tax for all. This would be easier to administer, collect and distribute and everyone would understand it. People whose job it was to administer taxes etc would be retrained to make sure that benefits are paid only to those in real need. and if footballers etc want to still earn obscene amount just because they are fortunate enough to have been blessed with a talent, they can have the option of playing for other countries rather than the prestige and adulation of playing for their own!
.... I did say it would be contentious!

Women do want it all....well, some women.

No, they want what men have always had.

How very dare they