The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

GoldenAge

I'm not an anti=vaxxer BUT - and here's the rub, the covid 'vaccines' are not vaccines but gene therapy - read the science, and the BBC publication today of the research showing how the astra-zeneca therapy has caused lots of blood clots - we already knew it had done so but now we know how that has happened, is compelling. I think what we look at as people of senior years is how our lives have been prolonged by the various 'vaccines' but what we don't consider is what's happening to our younger population who are now turning up in their thousands with heart and other inflammatory conditions as a result of their jabs - these are conditions which will be life-limiting for them.

My partner is a scientist, who was involved in the initial stages of the AZ vaccine. He's just read your post and I can't repeat what he said about your claim that it's "gene therapy", which it most certainly is not.

Susan 55 I think one of the reasons for vaccination is that it affects the transmission rate. I don't know exact figures but you are much less likely to pass it on

A C4 documentary called 'The Antivax Conspiracy' is worth watching to provide an insight into the anti-tax movement. It pre-dates Covid-19 but became more prominent during the pandemic. It is compelling, upsetting and scary, even more perhaps because of the use of tools of persuasion than the health implications. The documentary was first shown in June but is still available online at C4 if you register and search for the programme. A post by Varian a while ago brought it to my attention and I am indebted to her.

I do understand why some young people are concerned about the COVID-19 vaccine because there remain questions about its long term impact. From what we know, these are unfounded but doubts remain. We do know that the vaccine has positive effects of reducing the risk of catching COVID-19, being seriously ill, being hospitalised and dying. It is not a 100% guarantee but it is, for most people, especially of a certain age, the best option.

If we who are vaccinated can still get and pass on the virus, does it mean that the unvaccinated are really any more dangerous than the rest of us? Surely the danger is only to themselves as they're more likely to be seriously ill or to die?
I have a family member who is fervently anti-vac. He isn't stupid (Cambridge graduate) but is convinced that all vaccination is what he calls 'bad science'. He does a LOT of research (obsessively, frankly) but is also convinced that there isn't a pandemic and that it's all a hoax and about control. How he thinks our (or any other) government would be organised enough to sort out this 'control', I have no idea. But I'm not scared to be around him - he is no more likely, I think, to pass on Covid to me than anyone else I mix with. (I could be wrong, of course..)

GoldenAge

I'm not an anti=vaxxer BUT - and here's the rub, the covid 'vaccines' are not vaccines but gene therapy - read the science, and the BBC publication today of the research showing how the astra-zeneca therapy has caused lots of blood clots - we already knew it had done so but now we know how that has happened, is compelling. I think what we look at as people of senior years is how our lives have been prolonged by the various 'vaccines' but what we don't consider is what's happening to our younger population who are now turning up in their thousands with heart and other inflammatory conditions as a result of their jabs - these are conditions which will be life-limiting for them.

Oops, another one.

You've completely misunderstood the reports about AZ and the thing you say about gene therapy is just plain wrong.

Any post that starts I'm not an anti-vaxxer BUT rings a few warning bells for me.

The problem I have with people who don’t have a vaccine is not that they are exercising their choice, but that so many of them are hell bent on influencing others.

If someone chooses not to be vaccinated, I personally feel that they’re misinformed and selfish, but whilst I am not happy at their choice and potential impact on others, I would support their right to choose. If they work with vulnerable people (in a care home setting, for example) they should only be allowed to continuing to work with this cohort if they are vaccinated. They can close not to be vaccinated, they just can’t put others at risk.

The other thing I don’t get, is by all means choose for yourself, don’t try to influence the choice of others. I abhor the radical anti vaxxers spouting nonsense to all and sundry

Hetty58

Should the unvaccinated receive free hospital treatment for Covid?

Yes of course. Or are you also going to exclude smokers, those who play extreme sports etc?

We had a patient (GP) who wouldn't put foreign stuff in her body, had breast implants though!!! My favourite is the youngsters who'll buy a tab in a nightclub loo but won't have the vax

Susan55

I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

None of that's true, though, is it Susan55?

I’m fully vaccinated and had my booster, too. Like many disabled, I have quite a turnover of home helps. The very best of these has now seemingly disappeared but her replacement too, is a hard working, capable and nice, young woman. She is fully vaccinated like all her family, wears a mask to work and opens a window as soon as she arrives. ( I can’t manage to open windows myself)
The former home help has, so gossip tells me, found a full time job working in a cafe attached to a service station. So unvaccinated, she hands food, coffee etc to people all day. The thought worries me.
My family think I should warn her employers she has refused to be vaccinated.
I prefer to hope that should this COVID epidemic continue, vaccination will become compulsory for all who work within the public sector.

Anti Vaxers make me fume. I think they should sign a document to say they don’t want treatment from the nhs if they catch the virus They’re so selfish and muddle headed

What is different about it?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however as I see it there should be a rule…..no vaccine no ventilator…..easy.

I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

I am not happy that I now have to spend money I have worked hard for to get the medical treatment I need. I would happily charge the anti vaxxers for any Covid treatment they need.

I am puzzled by the last few posts.

So any virus that pops up, including one that is even more deadly than covid should simply be allowed to run its course?

I’m not advocating compulsory vaccination, but I am very much against advocating the proselytisation of anti-vaccination.

My friend reckons she had a bad reaction in the past to a vaccine which is why she refuses to have it. She thinks she had Covid before the palaver so will be protected. She has no excuse for not wearing a mask, so bought an exemption lanyard off Amazon. I do have an excuse for not wearing a mask, as I put it to her I want to protect myself from catching anything going, and to prevent passing anything that I might have, on to anyone else!

You do know people who have been vaccinated still die with it?

I'm not an anti=vaxxer BUT - and here's the rub, the covid 'vaccines' are not vaccines but gene therapy - read the science, and the BBC publication today of the research showing how the astra-zeneca therapy has caused lots of blood clots - we already knew it had done so but now we know how that has happened, is compelling. I think what we look at as people of senior years is how our lives have been prolonged by the various 'vaccines' but what we don't consider is what's happening to our younger population who are now turning up in their thousands with heart and other inflammatory conditions as a result of their jabs - these are conditions which will be life-limiting for them.

It all comes down to a calculated risk.

The risks have been calculated and the results show the risks of Covid are greater than the risks of vaccination.

It is still a fundmently right to have freedom of choice in this country we do not as yet live under a dictatorship!
As they are advocating in the EU to force people to get vaccinated.The thin end of the wedge if you ask me.
Covid vaccine this year god knows what in the future.
Wether you agree with being unvaccinated or not is another matter.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, you can still catch, pass on and spread Covid. So to put this blame on those who choose (and should have the right to choose - our body is our temple - not to have the vaccine is misplaced and incorrect blame. The vaccine may help to prevent those who have it from getting a more serious bout of the virus, but it won't affect anyone else's chances. Why push a vaccine on those who don't want it if it makes no difference whatsoever to your own chances of illness?

Not all people who choose not to be vaccinated spread rumours and misinformation - on the contrary, many of them spend a lot of time looking up and researching all the for's and against's and after doing so, decide that perhaps they won't have what is clearly an experiential vaccine where the public are the research.

For those who suggest that reassurance should be given to those dubious about the vaccine - how can you give reassurance when the vaccine remains in an experimental period? I would suggest that the only reassurance which can possibly be given at this stage is 'So far, we 'believe' it is safe to have a vaccine. Any reassurance to say how 'safe' it is would not be correct because at this point, no-one really knows whether it's safe or not. It would be an assumption to believe it is 'known' that the vaccine is safe. But we know different because there are reports of serious consequences for some.

If you don't have the vaccine, there is a chance you will get Covid. If you do have the vaccine there is a chance you will still possibly get Covid but may suffer the possible consequences of the vaccine. It all comes down to a calculated risk. Some are happy to take that risk, others are not. Who is anyone to say what anyone else should put into their bodies, particularly if it has not been fully researched?

I don't know about anyone else, but when I request help from a doctor I like to know that he knows something about my condition and what possible effects there might be from any treatment he gives me. As it stands, the doctors are not totally certain about the conditions of Covid or the vaccine (efficacy or consequences) and are also not totally certain about how to treat it. It's extremely clear to see that the vaccine, and Covid, are unknown quantities at this point. Surely everyone has the right to choose for themselves?

On one of the community noticeboards on Facebook, someone posted an item about wearing a face mask as pre government instruction and not only the anti vaxxers came out of the woodwork, but the anti mask wearers as well!
The worst one was one guy that obviously didn't have anything to do besides being obnoxious to anyone that disagreed with him, even quoting figures that "clearly stated that more people were dying after they had been vaccinated than those that hadn't been vaccinated! He attached a link to his claim from ONS - Government statistics to back it up. Think he must have been taking something because it clearly stated that the number deaths in those that had been vaccinated had fallen compared to the non - vacc. He even tried to argue with someone that is an ITU Registrar who said that those Covid sufferers that were in his care had not been vaccinated, but the idiot tried to claim the doctor had no idea what he was talking about!
Then there was a bright spark comparing vaccination with thalidomide!
Fair enough that they don't agree with the Covid vaccinations - just wish they'd keep their thoughts to themselves and preferably find somewhere they can all live together in one place or to be given a tour of the nearest ITU.

The media has reported 10,000 excess deaths in young people so far this year from heart related issues, this is based on a 5 year average death count for the age group. The only thing that has changed is the vaccines and yet people dont seem bothered and still queue up for it. Super fit professional footballers and Rugby players are also dropping down dead. Do people not wonder why! Yet the holier than thou terrified vaccinated people are blaming the unvaccinated for spreading the virus when they too can catch it and pass it on just as easily. Im seriously concerned that these vaccines are messing with their brains too.

?? GSM!