The leader has become a liability

Well I think Boris might well win another term to be honest. Keir Starmer IS boring. Yes I get it - we’re not here to be entertained but goodness he does drone on doesn’t he? Once he’s up on his hind legs he’s reluctant to sit back down again any time soon. A captive audience comes to mind.

Time will tell I suppose but I wouldn’t get your hopes up WWmk2.

There was always an opinion that beneath Johnson’s blustering buffoonery there lay a great intellect. Even I thought that, on becoming PM, he would become more ministerial but, alas, it is beyond his capability. In fact, I don’t even know what he is capable of to be honest.

God - so bloody depressing. It reminds me so much of what I hear coming from the USA and Trump supporters.

Whitewavemark2

Dickens

Casdon

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

His rating has slipped - for the moment.

I'm sure the party will be working hard to restore faith - that might mean ditching Johnson. But he, 'Boris', as he is affectionately called by his supporters does maintain a certain pulling power - especially with those who think "he's doing his best" and that our current shambolic state is simply due to the pandemic.

Failing a catastrophe that can be laid at his door - he may well survive. Sleaze does not overly bother his fans, "all politicians are the same" they say. His lies do not faze them either, "all politicians lie". He's given them what they wanted, Brexit, and he tells them what they want to hear - about the dastardly French, the "bullying" EU, migrants treating this country "as their own". His buffoonery is seen as a great sense of humour.

I would not be at all surprised if he won another election.

Big assumption. I think only if they can pin the coming economic hardship for the voter on everything else except Brexit etc then he may win another election. But nothing focuses the mind more than a hit in the pocket.

... yep, it is a bit of an assumption.

I'm going on the interaction I've had on Facebook with many Brexit / Johnson supporters (I don't get out much!).

In spite of some facts, figures and statistical information being presented, the belief in Johnson and rightness of Brexit is, shall I say, 'strong'. With some it seems to come from the gut... they have faith. And, of course, the pandemic has had an effect.

You're right about the hit to the pocket - but if that, too, can be blamed on the pandemic?

The feeling I got when conversing on FB was that there was a lot of dissatisfaction with Johnson's government, but not because Brexit was a mistake, it was because it wasn't Brexity enough.

BJ was undecided at first wether to back Brexit or oppose it, in the end he chose backing Brexit as his best chance of becoming PM which was his ambition. His buffoonery was popular with voters and his very rosy portrayal of a post Brexit Britain landed him with a majority of 80, beyond his wildest dreams.

Now of course “the buck stops here” the plan did not work as intended, in addition Covid as well, it became his worst nightmare and he reverted to playing catch up. In all honesty in these Covid dominated days I really don’t believe anyone else would do better, nor do I get a sense that anyone else wants the job

When we finally overcome coronavirus new candidates will emerge to replace him and he will go quietly with a sigh of relief, because he is well out of his depth

Do we have, at the moment, a very fine example of the Dunning/Kruger effect?

And Stockholm Syndrome?

A TED talk in 2019 was entitled "Why do incompetent men become leaders?"

The speaker, a man, said men are typically more deceived about their talents than are women. To fool other people that you are better than you actually are, you first have to fool yourself. Being unaware of limitations increases the possibility of being a boss and most male leaders are incompetent. He added that the best leaders are boring!

Do we have, at the moment, a very fine example of the Dunning/Kruger effect?

Hear hear Coastpath.

Dickens

Casdon

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

His rating has slipped - for the moment.

I'm sure the party will be working hard to restore faith - that might mean ditching Johnson. But he, 'Boris', as he is affectionately called by his supporters does maintain a certain pulling power - especially with those who think "he's doing his best" and that our current shambolic state is simply due to the pandemic.

Failing a catastrophe that can be laid at his door - he may well survive. Sleaze does not overly bother his fans, "all politicians are the same" they say. His lies do not faze them either, "all politicians lie". He's given them what they wanted, Brexit, and he tells them what they want to hear - about the dastardly French, the "bullying" EU, migrants treating this country "as their own". His buffoonery is seen as a great sense of humour.

I would not be at all surprised if he won another election.

Big assumption. I think only if they can pin the coming economic hardship for the voter on everything else except Brexit etc then he may win another election. But nothing focuses the mind more than a hit in the pocket.

Casdon

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

His rating has slipped - for the moment.

I'm sure the party will be working hard to restore faith - that might mean ditching Johnson. But he, 'Boris', as he is affectionately called by his supporters does maintain a certain pulling power - especially with those who think "he's doing his best" and that our current shambolic state is simply due to the pandemic.

Failing a catastrophe that can be laid at his door - he may well survive. Sleaze does not overly bother his fans, "all politicians are the same" they say. His lies do not faze them either, "all politicians lie". He's given them what they wanted, Brexit, and he tells them what they want to hear - about the dastardly French, the "bullying" EU, migrants treating this country "as their own". His buffoonery is seen as a great sense of humour.

I would not be at all surprised if he won another election.

Whitewavemark2

I don’t think it will be another upset tbh. But it will be interesting.

A greatly reduced majority would be comforting...

I wonder if that's why the Mirror has just broken the No. 10 Christmas parties story...

I don’t think it will be another upset tbh. But it will be interesting.

The results of today's by-election might be interesting...

This

“Word of the day is 'eye-servant' (16th century): one who only works properly or follows the rules when they are being observed”

I wonder what clown and knucklehead translates to in French? Macron just about summed it up.
Condoning parties last Christmas at Westminster the day before cancelling Christmas for the country was another nail in his coffin.
I can’t see him surviving beyond the spring, particularly if he makes any more major cockups. His personal rating has slipped so much, it’s hard to see how he can find a way back.

It doesn't matter who turns up for PMQs or who supports Johnson in the Tory party, they will keep him as leader because he delivered the Red Wall. Anyone being proposed as a new leader would need to show they could keep those people on board and as most of them know there aren't many who could. (Mind I don't think Starmer would appeal to Red Wall either)

MaizieD

Excellent post, Coastpath

I would rather have someone who treats matters seriously and bothers with detail than one who skims over facts, talks nonsense and treats politics as though it were a circus.

It always seems bizarre that one of Johnson's stock attack lines at PMQs is that Starmer is 'playing politics'. . What on earth else does he expect?

Agree! Coastpath nailed it.

Yes, Starmer is "playing politics" - that's his job!

Johnson is "in" politics - and he does the same - that's his job, too.

We do not have consensus government, our system is adversarial. Perhaps someone should remind Johnson.

Excellent post, Coastpath

I would rather have someone who treats matters seriously and bothers with detail than one who skims over facts, talks nonsense and treats politics as though it were a circus.

It always seems bizarre that one of Johnson's stock attack lines at PMQs is that Starmer is 'playing politics'. . What on earth else does he expect?

It's now on the official parliamentary record, (Hansard) that Johnson is a liar. One for future historians...

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-11-30/debates/DA41937F-F795-4A37-8C9E-9940192FBC64/ConductOfTheRightHonMemberForUxbridgeAndSouthRuislip

Ian Blackford had the approval of the Deputy Speaker for saying this. Carefully worded.

The truth & the Prime Minister have always been strangers.... I can only conclude that the Prime Minister has demonstrated himself to be a liar

twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1465727219288920077?t=I3GIPbxQMf5N00FrIv5FTg&s=03

Coastpath

On Starmer being considered boring well I don't look to a PM for entertainment. There are pretty lights and reality TV for people seeking distraction rather than government.

I would rather have someone who treats matters seriously and bothers with detail than one who skims over facts, talks nonsense and treats politics as though it were a circus.

A reliably boring four years where important issues are treated methodically, fairly and with consideration would be my dream. Boris can then go back to what he's best suited for ....providing distraction on the subject of bent bananas in the gutter press.

Absolutely

On Starmer being considered boring well I don't look to a PM for entertainment. There are pretty lights and reality TV for people seeking distraction rather than government.

I would rather have someone who treats matters seriously and bothers with detail than one who skims over facts, talks nonsense and treats politics as though it were a circus.

A reliably boring four years where important issues are treated methodically, fairly and with consideration would be my dream. Boris can then go back to what he's best suited for ....providing distraction on the subject of bent bananas in the gutter press.

If pigs fly maybe some of the more moderate Tories would get some guts and take positive action to depose this clique.

I too have never supported the Tory party but I believe May certainly had integrity. This shower have no interest in the good of their country, lining their own pockets at public expense. What is more they are dragging us through the dirt, internationally speaking.

Oh PLEASE NO kitty!

Liz Truss?

I imagine the new year will bring changes. The Johnsons are expecting a new baby at Christmas so it may well be that the 1922 Committee and all who sail in her, will wait for that event and Christmas of course, before getting rid of him. But who to replace him? Gove, Sunak, Mogg etc., are tainted. There’s always J Hunt…