Johnson wanting to overrule the judiciary !

MaizieD

Parliament won't treat it with disdain, I'm afraid, because tory MPs will be whipped to pass the legislation and it will go through thanks to the huge majority the government has.

David Cameron deserves to rot in hell, along with the parents of little Arthur, for destroying the UK with his miserable referendum which has enabled this attack our constitution and the rule of law.

I can only hope that significant numbers of the UK population responds with massed civil disobedience. Governments aren't the only ones who can show contempt for the law. The most interesting issue would be whose side would the army be on if the police weren't sufficient to control us?

I wish call me Dave could see what he has done to social care that is supporting peers of his late son

Has any other PM dressed up as much as Johnson does? And didn’t Patel dress up as a policeman a few months ago as well?

Looking at Johnson’s photo which showed him playing as a policeman, I tutted and shook my head at his foolishness, but it has just occurred to me and Caroline Lucas I notice has thought the same.

Where is the separation between the police and the state in Johnson’s latest escapade? This is fundamentally part of our constitution.

Lucas’s take

“Johnson’s police dress-up might look comical but it’s deeply dangerous, signalling breakdown of vital separation of power in any democracy, placing PM in a directly dictatorial role, undermining both the independence of police & the integrity of his office. It must be called out”

"The new ‘government by diktat’ bypasses parliament altogether"

A thought provoking article by Camilla Cavendish writing in the Financial Times

www.ft.com/content/36091d6c-a542-4253-8261-1a354e60b6cb

That is the power of the right wing press MayBee70

They made it clear after the failed attempt to prorogue parliament that they didn’t want them pesky legal people thwarting whatever they wanted to do, but they’d also been quite open about it prior to that. However, all the electorate seem to notice are the diversion tactics of Johnson doing his Mr Benn stuff of dressing up in silly hats and reflective jackets every day. It’s very frightening. I was chatting to a couple last week (whilst out dog walking ) about Storm Arwen and they came out with the usual ‘all politicians from all parties are corrupt’ and I couldn’t be bothered to contradict them. Same with the ‘Labour can’t run the economy’ argument. It seems to be baked in these days and no one believes that it isn’t true.

This goes further than controlling the news media.

The government has lost a number of cases involving its handling of the pandemic (crony contracts mainly) and Brexit. The cases it's lost have been on procedural issues, not whether Brexit is right or wrong or whether the government has made bad decisions.

The cases have been mainly crowd-funded. Firstly, it increased the defence costs, in an attempt to deter people bringing cases in the first place. Now it's threatening to ignore judicial rulings anyway.

Anybody who cares about democracy (and most people seem to claim they do) should be concerned about this, as a point of principle.

Even more worrying are the libertarians in the population who enthusiastically support this authoritarian government.

They never seem to see the contradiction between the "I'm not wearing a mask - its my human right to refuse" with their avowed hatred of the Human Rights Act.

Lincslass It took Hitler 13 years to get to power in Germany. No one is suggesting that right now the Govt is intending on killing lots of people. But they are going down a similar route as all other dictators, whether extreme right or left wing (rather more of the former at at the moment) by trying to control the judiciary. It's interesting how the libertarians in the govt are supporting the current proposals to change the law as regards demonstrations etc.

Do not think the Government are looking to murder millions of their own citizens.

Well, I have to admit that if that is your only takeaway from the Nazi government we have a little way to go, yet.. unless you count the horrendous covid death toll caused mostly by government inaction and 'let the bodies pile high in their thousands..'

But there was considerably more that was bad about the Nazi government than just Jew murdering.

MayBee70

He was always quite open about wanting to do this, and yet people still voted for him. This is an old article I saved from a couple of years ago about them wanting to control the news media.

But...but...but...

We were assured by some people who voted for him that he was a libertarian...

MaizieD

A pertinent paragraph.

'Government' seem to have got their understanding of themselves a bit muddled here. It is Parliament that is sovereign, not the Executive (the government). 'Parliament' is the sum total of the House of Commons and the House of Lords. And being 'sovereign' does not mean being above the Rule of Law.

With a big majority and MPs who seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Executive is bent on overturning Parliamentary Sovereignty and the Rule of Law this proposal could well become law and the Executive would reign supreme.

We fought a bloody civil war in the 17th C to establish the supremacy of Parliament and prevent dictatorship by the Crown (which the Executive in parliament represents). Every Parliamentarian from then onwards must be turning in their graves in utter horror and disbelief at this proposal.

I will forebear to make comparisons with Nazi Germany...

I should hope so. Do not think the Government are looking to murder millions of their own citizens. Ridiculous analogy. Left wing papers are bound to exaggerate whatever they get leaked to them, as they are totally against this Government, in fact any Government that isn’t Labour.

He was always quite open about wanting to do this, and yet people still voted for him. This is an old article I saved from a couple of years ago about them wanting to control the news media.

more are in agreement with the government because they're convinced that the judiciary are obsessed with the human rights of immigrants and criminals over the law-abiding, and have "gone soft". So they'll cheer and vote Tory. Oh yes, all those 'leftie lawyers' with their obsession with human rights, all those enemies of the people.

MaizieD

Was Raab a barrister? I thought he was a solicitor..

Whatever he is it was a deeply stupid thing to say. And wrong, as many lawyers on twitter have pointed out.

Sorry , my mistake, but it was still a stunningly stupid thing to say.

constitution I meant !

As I said in the onset of this discussion I truly thought it was a hoax - could not happen here . Totally agree with Dickens this is a huge threat to our accepted way of life. Does not help that we do not have a written Constition , we sort of bumble along adding bits and pieces to our laws as thought fit at the time.
But this is way beyond an odd tweak this is akin to Despotism and it really does scare the hell out of me ! How dare they !!!!

GillT57

and people just don't care, and if they start to take notice then Johnson and the press will distract them with something else, probably the birth of the next Johnson baby. Twitter is alive with people writing about this, intelligent articulate people who are desperately trying to warn everyone.

"and people just don't care"

... many don't. And some don't even understand the threat, and still more are in agreement with the government because they're convinced that the judiciary are obsessed with the human rights of immigrants and criminals over the law-abiding, and have "gone soft". So they'll cheer and vote Tory.

And when they, themselves, need recourse to justice, or they're incensed at some piece of legislation that affects their lives and want to protest, they'll find that all those avenues have been closed off. I hope they'll remember then when they cheered and nodded to each other in agreement at the appalling "Enemies of the People" headline in the Daily Mail.

I'm not 'Boris Bashing' or attacking the Tories for the sake of it, I really believe we are at a crossroads in our constitutional and democratic way of life. And I'm pretty sure we're going to go in the wrong direction.

Well, don't care what he was, he's an idiot on many levels, plus the fact he has an axe to grind having been demoted.
Always keep your friends close and your enemies closer comes to mind. Et tu Brute !

MaizieD

^Parliament is weak in the face of government, largely there to do what it's told. But in terms of the power of make laws, change our constitution and determine our rights, parliament is all powerful.^

The biggest impediment to the independence of parliament is the whipping system, not the Crown, Grany. If MPs were truly independent they would vote according to what they believed to be right for the country, not what their party instructs them to do.

Replacing the monarch with another Head of State would do nothing to change this. What you propose just gives another 'body' unlimited powers...

A n elected Head of State would have limited powers MaizieD

Was Raab a barrister? I thought he was a solicitor..

Whatever he is it was a deeply stupid thing to say. And wrong, as many lawyers on twitter have pointed out.

Ironically, the very thing which is distracting a lot of people ie the Downing Street non party last December, is causing a lot of discussion about the very subject of the rule of law. Many are horrified that Raab, a barrister and Lord Chancellor said on Maar yesterday that the police do not usually investigate alleged crimes a year after the event. Just stop, look, and take that apart and weep that we have a man of such stunning stupidity in our government.

GillT57

and people just don't care, and if they start to take notice then Johnson and the press will distract them with something else, probably the birth of the next Johnson baby. Twitter is alive with people writing about this, intelligent articulate people who are desperately trying to warn everyone.

Well, that cheers me up ! Not on Twitter but brilliant that this is now becoming a subject of great concern to many.
As so it should !

Parliament is weak in the face of government, largely there to do what it's told. But in terms of the power of make laws, change our constitution and determine our rights, parliament is all powerful.

The biggest impediment to the independence of parliament is the whipping system, not the Crown, Grany. If MPs were truly independent they would vote according to what they believed to be right for the country, not what their party instructs them to do.

Replacing the monarch with another Head of State would do nothing to change this. What you propose just gives another 'body' unlimited powers...

Talking to a friend about this very worrying issue and I have copied part of the conversation from my friend.

This is being discussed as gill57 says by intelligent and articulate people who are very alarmed.

“This government, while promoting “nothing has changed” or “this is what the people wanted” or even “everyone does it” is fundamentally undermining our democracy.
No one is making this up. They are not being over dramatic. This is being done and no amount of saying nothing has changed will convince all voters or, eventually, even some. People eventually see through gas-lighting.
The attempts of diminishing someone’s belief in what they say and therefore their self esteem by belittling the concerns of others will not work either. There are too many who see this government, its leader and its followers for exactly what they are.
People will speak truth to power. The government has broken the rules. They have tried to undermine democracy. They have tried to undermine justice. They have tried to undermine our judiciary. Followers of the Tories (they are all to blame not just Johnson) who say they are not seeing the rain – the sun is shining while standing in the downpour will be shown up for what they are. We can see the rain and will keep saying it is raining.
Blatant lies, the shifting of the narrative will not minimise how the country feels about the undermining of democracy. Some will be cowed but not all.
These gas-lighting Tories will also try to deflect and minimise. Notice the conversations that are becoming circular and unfair and always call it out.
Remember the goal of gas-lighting is to make you doubt your perception. It is never done for a good purpose.
Remember too that your thinking and your feeling are as valid as anyone else’s. Yes, you are prepared to learn but do not be prepared to be told what you say isn’t valid – just because it happened last year or the gas-lighter tells you no one cares.
Remember too these people often have narcissistic personality disorder. They only want what they want and don’t care how they get it. They will not change. However, more will listen. If necessary simply disengage from the gas-lighter.”

Sound advice.