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Vince Cable Pensioners should go back to work

(185 Posts)
Mumofthree Fri 10-Dec-21 07:45:31

omg I am watching Good Morning Britain and apparently Vince Cable thinks retired pensioners who are fit should go back to work. I am 66 and still work through choice (I am trying to save a little bit for emergencies) I will leave my job in June next year.
The guests discussing this are Nina Myskow who thinks it should be a choice and this young guy called Mark Ryan Parsons (from the Apprentice) is saying we should go back to work and stop being 'LAZY' his exact words to Nina were ' Nina, stop making excuses for elderly being LAZY'............I am shocked at his attitude. Some of us have worked over 50 years and we deserve our pensions and the choice to retire. He also said we cost the economy thousands in care, what an upstart. We have paid in for years and supported the care of previous generations, he insists we are living off the younger generation! Nina said the elderly have done their bit and young people should get off the gadgets and get to work. I just can't get over his arrogance, we are not lazy.

CanadianGran Sat 11-Dec-21 05:34:40

I think many pension aged people would be willing to work part time if there were flexible jobs available. Normally in our last 10 years of working, we are at the max allowable vacation scale, and many of us have more discretionary income; for going away on vacation, spending January in the sun, taking a few weeks to visit family when they need us. We don't want to give up the flexibility we have earned.

Case in point my brother, who is a long distance bus driver. His typical day was start at 6, did a 3 hour run and turn around, to be home by dinner. Covid put a stop to that run, which typically was geared to tourists. His only other option with his company is charters, which often means overnighting in a hotel. He doesn't want that job, so has taken a leave and is looking for something else. He would gladly work part time, but most trucking/bus jobs call for 10 hour days. He is late 50's and wants to work less, not more. He is contemplating early retirement. Such a shame when there is a shortage of drivers everywhere.

My DH had the same issue. Phased out of his job in early 50's, but all offers at his skill level were looking for young blood, and did not offer any flexibility. He took his buy-out and retired early.

I hear very many similar stories. So many in health care retiring early because they cannot do 12 hour shifts. Perhaps try 6 hour shifts? Unfortunately, management seems to be a bit blind and not think outside the box at times.

growstuff Sat 11-Dec-21 03:07:58

MayBee70

I’ve always tried to keep myself as fit and healthy as possible but if I worked now I would literally have to go straight to bed after leaving work: I get so tired.

I don't know what kind of work you did, but there are probably opportunities somewhere for you to contribute the knowledge and skills you acquired in a limited capacity, without having to go out to work every day.

I certainly couldn't do a full-time teaching job in a school, but I've found ways of earning money without even having to leave my home office. I love what I do in a way I never loved my past career.

growstuff Sat 11-Dec-21 03:03:26

MOnica It's refreshing to have a sensible debate on the issues rather than a kneejerk reaction.

Personally, I think Vince Cable raises some valid issues (forget the pipsqueak from The Apprentice).

Many people can and do continue with work beyond state retirement age. Cable does mention that there could be more flexible opportunities - for people to work part-time, for example. I think that many people would welcome the opportunity to work one or two days a week in a variety of roles. It would need some "thinking outside the box", but I can see benefits for the people themselves and for society and the economy.

MayBee70 Sat 11-Dec-21 01:57:35

I’ve always tried to keep myself as fit and healthy as possible but if I worked now I would literally have to go straight to bed after leaving work: I get so tired.

ElaineI Sat 11-Dec-21 01:20:34

Retired and took on childcare for DGS2 2 days a week 10 hours a day (then 7 months old) and DGS1 and DGD 2 days a week (then 5 and 1 ½ ) 9/10 hours a day. Very good - go back to work! On the 1 day left or at the weekend? Thankfully there is a bit less as children have got older 1 day 9 hours DGS2 (now 3) and 1 day sometimes 2 for DGS1 and DGD (now 8 and 4) 4 and 5 hours a day. No LauraNorderr few childminders fit in with the hours (nursing and teaching early primary - both DD's leave at 7am and it is only less now as there is local authority care for 30 hours a week for children under 5. I also care for my mother (86) registered blind and short term memory loss - see her twice a week. She has help 1 day a week for cleaning - that's all and no way would I want her in a home these Covid days. DH has had a stroke and though can care for himself - there are pills I look after, exercises and walks.

varian Fri 10-Dec-21 17:58:42

You are right Monica

Apart from the unpaid work that many retired folk do, lots of us do work after retirement age, although it is easier if you can be part-time, work flexible hours or be self employed.

I became self employed in my fifties and was very driven during my fifties and sixties, often working very long hours to meet deadlines.

I did intend to retire at 75 but, looking back, I did slow down after 70. and so retired at 73. I still feel a bit of a slacker.

M0nica Fri 10-Dec-21 17:43:59

growstuff Thank you for that extended report of the article.

But one thing still remains undealt with in the article, bar a throwaway sentence at the end and that is the contribution that unpaid voluntary work makes to the economy. It is easy to talk glibly about people doing unpaid, jobs that people could be paid for, but we are moving towards an era of lowbirth rates and declining populations. It is the worldwide increase in longevity that is causing our current growth in population, not excess births. Outside Africa, most countries are down to replacement level family sizes.

We have at the moment too many jobs chasing to few people and in sectors like transport this is driving (sorry) up the wages and improving the conditions of lorry drivers. The same will inevitably happen with care workers. Most of us involved in childcare, or the care of adults are doing jobs that there are not people willing or able to do.

Many older people do now work. DH has not fully left the world of work at 78. But he has been self-employed and has complete control over how much work he does and when. Those of us whose employment is not suited to self-employment, may feel disinclined to take on a regular commitment when there are demands of other kinds on us and, even for the young retired, stamina starts dropping and you are easily tired.

Josianne Fri 10-Dec-21 16:55:28

Personally I don't think that the value we bring to the workplace has anything to do with longevity. Surely most people give 100% to their job and show total commitment while their health and energy levels allows. I'm not sure the same stamina and vibrancy can be expected in later years, and for that reason I would think that I was no longer performing to my full capacity. Not lazy, more burnt out!

Josianne Fri 10-Dec-21 16:46:54

Chestnut

I think everyone has missed the point that this young man was put on the programme just to put a controversial and opposing viewpoint in order to generate discussion, which seems to have worked. I have seen some discussions on GMB and that seems to be what they do. The guests often have extreme views which make for a good battle!

Precisely what I said at 8 am this morning.

mokryna Fri 10-Dec-21 16:44:11

I had just woken up when I heard him speak. He said that there was a lack of HGD and farm workers ….. did he mean those jobs were for me, he didn’t explain.

I started work at 15 full time and have just retired from my main job because of covid 71 but I still work a few hours elsewhere. Admitted I took time off for the children but I did child minding at the same time.

Chestnut Fri 10-Dec-21 16:12:27

I think everyone has missed the point that this young man was put on the programme just to put a controversial and opposing viewpoint in order to generate discussion, which seems to have worked. I have seen some discussions on GMB and that seems to be what they do. The guests often have extreme views which make for a good battle!

JaneJudge Fri 10-Dec-21 16:00:22

surely there are plenty of people of working age at home that could get a job? I think they need to encourage to economically inactive to apply for positions, incentivise with training etc

growstuff Fri 10-Dec-21 15:57:25

I hadn't realised until I found the GMB clip that Vince Cable wasn't actually on the programme to explain himself.

The idea that some people should work beyond pension age seems to have been based on an article in the Independent. Maybe people should read it before jumping to conclusions.

"Our ageing population is fuelling inflation and adding to public debt. Getting elderly, retired, but fit people back in to the workforce, and treating them as an economic resource, is right even if it is provocative. These were some of the conclusions to emerge from a conference this month on the future of ageing (#FutureOfAgeing; International Longevity Centre).

Britain, like other developed economies – and China – is getting distinctly older. The percentage of the population aged over 60 is around 22 per cent, having risen from 16 per cent in 1990 – and is projected to rise to 25 per cent in another 40 years.

And, within that total, the share of the very old (over 80) is growing especially rapidly, from around 2.4 per cent now, to an estimated 7 per cent in 40 years’ time.

Projections are, of course, uncertain. The main assumption is that people are living longer thanks to better health treatment and healthier lifestyles, but this is not inevitable – as we have seen from declining life expectancy amongst males in the USA.

The fertility of women of child-bearing age has been declining to around 1.6, and is likely to stabilise at a lower level still. Net immigration is also a big factor in population size and composition, and if this were cut in line with the Conservative government’s aspirations it would have the effect of reducing the proportion of younger people and increasing the number of over 60s.

Other countries have progressed further in the ageing process. The share of the over-60s is 33 per cent in Japan, 29 per cent in Italy and 28 per cent in Germany. That share is expected to rise rapidly to over 40 per cent in those countries by the middle of the century – and they will be joined by China.

The economic effects of ageing are complex, but we can make a few plausible assumptions. First, there is a pressure on government budgets, since there are more people with high dependency requiring expensive health treatment and social care.

At the same time, the share of population which is working goes down, reducing the tax take. So, in the absence of continued budget tightening, governments will run up growing budget deficits and public debt.

In addition, the retired population will spend out of its accumulated savings. The decline in the share of the working-age population will reduce the productive capacity of the economy.

Increasing demand for goods and services while reducing supply will create inflation, all other things being equal. In practice, governments will use monetary and fiscal policy to counter the trend; but it will be like walking into a stiff headwind.

Another likely consequence is growing inequality between generations. The old demand more spending on health and social care as pressures on hospitals grow. We have seen that budgets for school and colleges are being – relatively – squeezed.

Additional spending currently promised for health and social care is being financed by taxes which fall on the working population (in the form of National Insurance Contributions) rather than by taxation on the accumulated capital of the elderly.

That is not all. In the last “decade of austerity”, with falling real wages for many working families, pensions were protected through the “triple lock”. There is also a political ratchet effect whereby ageing produces an ageing electorate, and one where older people have a higher propensity to vote, defending its interests in terms of government spending priorities at the expense of younger people.

Moreover, younger people have less secure employment than before, with fewer careers offering steady progression and salary increments and essentially none offering final-salary pensions And, there is an inflationary property market – which excludes those with low and average incomes and rewards older owner-occupiers with appreciating property wealth.

Some of these pressures could be eased if younger, fitter, people of retirement age were to continue working. They would help to meet growing labour shortages. They would generate more tax revenue for government. And, in many cases, they would keep themselves mentally and physically active, thereby postponing the onset of conditions leading to high dependency.

The barriers to such employment are falling. Compulsory retirement has been outlawed and age discrimination is illegal, too (at least in theory). The nature of work is less physical and more desk based.

While more flexible working patterns, like zero-hours contracts, are less secure; they may suit older workers, who are looking to supplement their pension income. Fitness levels are generally higher: all those yoga and pilates classes, walking, gym and cycling (or, in my case, ballroom dancing and gym).

Furthermore, many older people need to work because their occupational pension provision is inadequate for comfortable retirement. In particular, there are large numbers of women who prioritised unpaid parenting and are now denied the full state pension – or who have been caught out by the postponement of the women’s pension age.

“Work until you drop” used to be a feature of exploitative capitalism or enslavement. “Work as long as you can” may be the slogan of a society trying, in an ageing society, to get a better balance between the interests of young and old. How do we achieve it?

First: more imagination. There are numerous roles – teaching in schools and colleges; policing; nursing and doctoring; legal work; accounting; working in supermarkets; delivering the post – which those who have reached pensionable age may be happy to perform for a limited number of hours provided there is no financial disincentive. But it requires employers to be flexible and to maximise synergies between workers of different age and experience.

Second: retraining. Skills atrophy. And older workers will often lack IT aptitude. As a 78-year-old part-time worker, I put in a lot of creative hours – but have the computer skills of a six or seven-year-old. People are expected to teach themselves keyboard skills, which are daunting for those who honed their communication skills in a world of pen and paper.

Adult education institutions should be seen not just as places for hobby learning, but for improving such basic modern, generic, skills: perhaps (in short) “boot-camp” retraining programmes.

Third, we should learn from countries further advanced in ageing – especially Japan. The oldest area in Japan is called Akito. It has been described as, “the backwater which leads the world”. The local authorities, instead of the usual emphasis on sheltered housing for retired people, encourage integrated living.

The elderly offer childcare, and in return, working-age families offer services which the older residents need. Women are able to work without the uncertainties and costs of childcare, and elderly people have a useful role as well as support.

Finally, there are millions of older people who cannot work and depend on care. As with others who have a physical or mental disability or chronic illness, they rely on an army of carers. Many carers are volunteers and are unpaid, especially relatives of dependent loved ones. They may not pay tax and are not counted in GDP statistics, but they substitute for people who do and are.

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Their role in an ageing economy needs to be factored in. That means providing much more respite care, both as a compassionate measure and as a means of postponing when people have to go into expensive institutional care permanently; and far more generous carers’ allowances to compensate for dropping out of formal work.

Britain has the advantage of time to prepare gradually for an ageing population and to adapt. For many that will mean working longer. But that is the price we pay for living longer.

Bea65 Fri 10-Dec-21 15:55:05

I remember this pompous ass on The Apprentice....ignore him!

Allsorts Fri 10-Dec-21 15:47:41

It’s ok for Vince in his job, what about those working outside at his age, in factories, doing manual labour, he needs to get out there and do the work, did a few trenches, get up at 4 and drive a truck, before passing his stupid comments, I’m sure a lot of older pensioner would take his place for a time.

Lucca Fri 10-Dec-21 15:44:27

I remember him on the apprentice too and to say he’s a twit is a serious misspelling …….

Calistemon Fri 10-Dec-21 15:08:00

If he wants to work till he drops, good luck to him with that.
He doesn't work, though, Pepper59
Not in any meaningful way of the word.

We're just taking the Michael out of a one-time politician and a daft young person.

Pepper59 Fri 10-Dec-21 15:04:52

Mark Ryan Parsons? Never heard of him. Why are people even caring what he says. This man's opinions are not important to anyone. I'd ignore, mind you, he will probably feel differently as he gets older. If he wants to work till he drops, good luck to him with that. People like him never seem to realise health issues play a massive part in what you are able to do. Sixty years old may not be classed as an old person nowadays, but it's sure not the same as being twenty.

Calistemon Fri 10-Dec-21 14:58:19

Doodledog

Calistemon

Doodledog I think it was this Parsons young man who described retired people as Lazy.
He who doesn't seem to have done a proper day's work in his life.

Oh I remember him grin.

He was a twit on The Apprentice, wasn't he?

I only watch a few episodes but I do remember him, yes, an absolute first-class twit!

I never understand how someone can make a living out of doing nothing much except being a celeb.
Then telling us we're lazy just takes the proverbial.

Mind you, I'd rather give a willing 80 year old a job than him!

M0nica Fri 10-Dec-21 14:54:38

Another person who may be clever but lacks intelligence. Like most of the current cabinet. Sadly that seems to apply to VC as well. Once upon a time I used to admire him. Not any more. my faith has been gradually eroded ever since he became leader of the LibDems.

growstuff Fri 10-Dec-21 14:34:58

Calistemon

Doodledog I think it was this Parsons young man who described retired people as Lazy.
He who doesn't seem to have done a proper day's work in his life.

I hadn't a clue who he is, so Googled him. He appears to want to follow in Katie Hopkins' footsteps. Why do people even listen to him or read what he's written?

growstuff Fri 10-Dec-21 14:31:29

winterwhite

The 'lazy' comment was inexcusable, but as a general point Vince Cable's comment reflects the fact that retirement age is now way out of step with increases in life expectancy, hence some of the problems with pension funds.

And of course many older people didn't want to retire in the first place.

I didn't see the programme, so thanks for saying this. I think that people should be able to work for as long as they want, which will need having a re-think about part-time and flexible work. I believe there's an agency somewhere that specialises in finding part-time, skilled work for those who want it (but don't know what it's called).

It's obvious from the number who do voluntary work that many people are capable of work beyond retirement age, so why shouldn't they be paid for the work they do?

Doodledog Fri 10-Dec-21 14:11:17

Calistemon

Doodledog I think it was this Parsons young man who described retired people as Lazy.
He who doesn't seem to have done a proper day's work in his life.

Oh I remember him grin.

He was a twit on The Apprentice, wasn't he?

sodapop Fri 10-Dec-21 13:50:09

We can't do right for doing wrong can we. If we continue working past retirement age we are taking jobs from younger people. If we don't work we are lazy.
I do feel for the younger generation though, my daughter is a nurse and will have to work until she is 68 ( currently ) to achieve the pension I got at 60.

maddyone Fri 10-Dec-21 13:41:40

Good post Doodledog.