Politics: a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

Anti vaxers bang on about their ‘rights’, but say very little about the responsibilities that go along with most rights. They may have a right not to take the vaccine, but with that decision comes the responsibility not to spread it to others. With that in mind are the unvaccinated prepared to be refused entry to virtually everything that constitutes ‘normal’ life and be working from home, because that’s the only alternative I can think of to vaccination. One poster said that they agreed with the compulsory vaccination of NHS and care staff - well why not compulsory vaccination for the rest of society, because the risk is the same.

People also bang on about identity cards. Having an identity card would not worry me in the slightest having always led a law abiding life. I can’t imagine why it would concern anybody unless you were illegally in this country to begin with.

I do not feel the unvaccinated are really any more danger to me than the vaccinated as both can pass the virus on. In fact a lady that works for us is unvaccinated but I think she is at more risk than me
Must admit Maddyone I haven’t stopped going out large Charity ball a few weeks ago restaurants and hotels are definitely not off the agenda or restaurants Had enough of that last year
But for the general well being of society as a whole the more vaccinated the better

GagaJo

I'm not sure how the link to ID checking works. It is possible to get a vaccination in the UK now without any identification and with no checking. Unless we're reverting to the idea of a computer chip in the vaccine?

In France we have a "carte vitale" which we produce whenever we need anything medical. In the UK we have an NI number so why can't everyone carry a card with medical information which could be produced when requiring treatment?

people unable to get hospital care due to the NHS being clogged up with the unvaccinated

Yes! I read yesterday about someone unable to have their much needed kidney transplant due to ICU being full of mostly unvaccinated (and elderly) patients. Young girl.

My own DD had to wait 4 months to have a breast lump checked, despite us having a family history of BC and her carrying the BRCA1 gene.

This from the Guardian a few weeks ago:

www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/sep/24/once-covid-world-beaters-the-mood-in-new-zealand-is-changing-and-jacinda-ardern-knows-it

I agree with henetha except I would go further and say no access to clubs, cinemas, etc etc without a covid passport. I'm sure something could be done for those who cannot take the vaccination. Possibly a "non-covid" passport that is not available to buy somewhere, thereby preventing misuse.

Whilst a large proportion of the world's population (43%) are not vaccinated covid is not going away.

The average age of the population in S Africa is 28 so we cannot extrapolate from their results to what would happen in the UK.

I'm not sure how the link to ID checking works. It is possible to get a vaccination in the UK now without any identification and with no checking. Unless we're reverting to the idea of a computer chip in the vaccine?

In the same way that people are arguing against government imposing vaccinations on those who refuse to be vaccinated, I want to know what about the safety of those who comply? Those against compulsory vaccination, how do you see a way out of this? Are you happy to see businesses ruined, personal pleasures curtailed in the long term, people unable to get hospital care due to the NHS being clogged up with the unvaccinated? Tell us what the answer is.
I think unless there is a real medical reason for not being vaccinated, the ones who refuse are putting the rest of us at risk and curtailing our lives. Why should they be allowed to do that?

Whitewavemark2

So I am thinking no compulsory vaccination.

But with that choice must come responsibility and recognition that those choices cannot be allowed to put others in harms way.

Everyone applauded Jacinda Adern when she closed the borders of New Zealand at the beginning of the pandemic. My daughter lives in New Zealand at the moment and she tells me that the country is now almost 90% fully vaccinated from 12 years old and up. Like here there are some anti vaxxers. They are not allowed in any public building apart from shops for essential shopping. So no theatres, cinemas, shops (except essential) swimming pools, schools, colleges, etc etc. Nowhere! They are allowed to go nowhere! Vaccine passports must be shown to enter every building, even a shop or cafe. Perhaps Jacinda’s way is the way forward.

But maddyone you’ll never know who has or hasn’t been vaccinated (unless mandatory) so half the year (winter) you’ll live half a life. I suppose you think severe restrictions are the price worth paying. I wouldn’t but it does come down to choices made?

On another note:

At last, some common sense "Coronavirus latest news: Omicron infection could act as a 'natural vaccine' for Covid, professor says. "Everybody’s very likely to experience it in the next few weeks. If it is milder, and we know infection induces an immune response, [so] it is possible that this could act as a natural vaccine, getting to those people who have so far been unwilling to be vaccinated," Prof Riley told BBC Radio 4."
www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-news-booster-cases-vaccine-passport-coronavirus-omicron2/

It’s very difficult isn’t it? I’m losing any sympathy for the unvaccinated (I’m not including any person who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons) because I do think anti vaxxers present a grave danger to the rest of us. If unvaccinated people get Covid and die that’s a choice they made. If I get Covid (again) and die it’s not my choice. I’ve done all I can to protect myself. I echo what MawBe said, we all need to wear masks, sanitise, wash hands, socially distance, and where possible reduce contacts with other people. I’ve been surprised to see on here that Gransnetters are going theatres and keep fit classes. I love live theatre and concerts but I won’t be going as long as I won’t know if the person sitting next to me is vaccinated or not, and until this week, didn’t even have to wear a mask. I do agree that compulsory vaccination is not a great way to go in terms of human liberty, but frankly I think life is more important than liberty in these particular circumstances. My liberty to do exactly as I would like is already curtailed. I don’t go to theatres, now it’s winter nor do I go to restaurants (I went to restaurants happily in the summer) I don’t go to my Tai Chi class any longer. I limit my visits to shops. I only socialise with my family regularly and limit my visits with my friends. I’d no more go to a party than I would fly to the moon. I’m sick of anti vaxxers, they’re selfish and ignorant. I’m coming around to the view that they should be fined if they don’t get vaccinated.

I am against compulsory vaccination, and agree with others that it is a slippery slope. However, I am in favour of limiting their access to clubs, cinemas, flights, hotels etc. Maybe only allowing them access to essential shopping.
It is their right to choose not to be vaccinated, but it is our right to be protected from them.

So I am thinking no compulsory vaccination.

But with that choice must come responsibility and recognition that those choices cannot be allowed to put others in harms way.

Luckygirl3

The compulsion would not consist of "holding people down" but of refusing admission to places if not vaccinated.

That’s the way I’m thinking.

My argument is that whilst people should be free to decide to refuse vaccination, they should not as a result impinge on my freedom by spreading mutations as a result of this refusal.

My freedom to live without disease is also a right.

Therefore feel free to refuse vaccination, but not to have the freedom to infect other members of the community who have done everything to protect themselves.

Totally agree with Alegrias on this.

Plus we have to remember that South Africa has a population with a much lower demographic than ours. Many young ‘uns there just don’t want the vaccine. It’s been offered and rejected. So not always a case of poor countries without vaccines stories.

Also, this variant is so mild. Don’t we think the media would be all over it like a rash if it weren’t? No scenes like in India - overrun hospitals with that Delta variant? It wouldn’t make for good tv pointing at South Africans with heavy head colds and sniffles. Zero deaths from it. Still.

Definitely NO to compulsory jabs from me. I worry that (as some conspiracy theorists said at the start) mandatory ID status is the aim. Control of the masses. It concerns me greatly the way we are all prepared to fall into line with this for a virus with a 98% recovery rate. Sheer madness.

We had social distancing and masks before the vaccines were developed. Not saying they don’t work, but you can’t compare the efficacy of sticking to these rules with that of vaccination surely ?
No of course not Pammie1 but more eminent epidemiologists than I have held all along that one single strategy is not enough - where there is no contact, there is no transmission, so hands, face, space was a good place to start and allied with vaccination should be a pretty effective “belt and braces” policy. Relaxing the other regulations too early had predictable consequences and we cannot count on the current vaccine being sufficient to counter future variants.

The compulsion would not consist of "holding people down" but of refusing admission to places if not vaccinated.

As time goes by it seems most COVID victims will be the elderly and anti vaxxers unless COVID becomes less deadly. The problem becomes the solution.

I'm praying the COVID becomes less deadly soon, God help us.

Our government is assuming dictatorship by stealth in many other ways. Dismantling the judicial review process for example. And that is quietly going ahead without much complaint.

And yet, something that could ensure the safety of the population, they're pussy footing around over. As others have said, they've done it in the past with other vaccinations and with things like seat belts.

I agree, it should be mandatory. And masks should be also. I think the British attitude stinks. While living abroad for the last 2 years, anyone walking into a shop would be reminded to put their mask on or leave. All of this 'lanyard' business was not tolerated

It's not a medical treatment as such. If we were being forced to have surgery or take pills every day I can understand the freedom worries. But this is our ONLY way out of this pandemic - we have nothing else on offer. We have to get everyone vaccinated - and I mean everyone - not just those in the first world.

And presumably those who go into care should be vaccinated? Or you are asking care staff to have compulsory vaccines and then risk transmission from those not vaccinated. Who will volunteer to hold the care home residents down.

Shropshirelass

According to a Welsh update, most of their admissions to hospital are vaccinated! It is very confusing. We are triple vaccinated but I know people who have not yet decided and this information makes them even more so!

That's because most people are vaccinated.

No, but they complement each other. We need both.

No, absolutely not ( compulsory vaccinations)
All governments everywhere just need to push the message as often as they can to reach as many ears and eyes as they can.
All care workers and NHS staff should be vaccinated or lose their jobs....that should go without saying.