Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost as chief negotiator with the EU

I'm not sure about all this. I think we sometimes have to shine a light on the other side of intelligence which comes from an emotional understanding. Letters after names obviously imply a high IQ but this can often be very limited to an area of knowledge like law or medicine. In order to possess real intelligence, I need to witness a person's ability to perceive, to evaluate and then to solve the problems before them, while at the same time expressing themselves in an emotional (not dramatic) manner. Someone like John Major springs to mind, no qualifications but genuine and reliable. Oxford or Cambridge aren't the be all and end all.
As an aside I think Kier Starmer is intelligent, but his being fiercely intelligent does not not come across for me.

Given Kier Starmer's qualifications and achievements, it is very hard to imagine that he is anything other than fiercely intelligent.

Why do you think Keir Starmer is not intelligent, please?

I like Rishi Sunak but as for the rest, no matter which party!, I am not very impressed. Kier Starmer is supposed to be a barrister, intelligent you would assume, but no……. afraid not.

She may be clever, having gone to Oxford, but that doesn't mean she's intelligent......she seems pretty daft to me!

We have spent five years pointing out, sometimes calmly, sometimes kindly, sometimes neither, that whatever you think you voted for was and is never going to happen. It might be helpful if you started attacking the people who lied to you instead of the people who told you the truth

Sadly, I cannot lay claim to this piece of calm common sense, it was James O'Brien of LBC. Sums it all up as far as I am concerned.

Kali2 My thoughts exactly.

Maudi

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

It's hard Maudi, and yes, I think we should all take a step back from this thread. But this is not, as you say, about 'views and politics' - but about how said 'views and politics' are reached- and urmstongran's comment about resonate so much with those of us who have studied all the issues carefully, and can see that the warnings given by experts were true and massively damaging to the UK as a country, and to all of us- whichever way we voted.

What is even more so upsetting, is that many now just refuse to accept this, and come up with solutions which would have even more drastic effects on all of us, and even more so, our grandchildren- like 'Trigger Art 16, and move to WTO' without being able to explain how on earth it would be beneficial to the UK (the people and our grandchildren). It is painful, it is utterly upsetting and very dangerous.

I try always to be polite- but when comments are made such as the above by urmstongran ... it is very very hard to resist. Not to poke fun, or gang up- but because of the dire consequences.

Maudi

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

It's not ganging up - it's just that there's rather more of us that disagree than agree with her.

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

Lucca

*but he hasn’t an opinion of his own*

What an extraordinary assertion ?? How do you know ??

She possibly 'found it in her head'

but he hasn’t an opinion of his own

What an extraordinary assertion ?? How do you know ??

Allsorts

I find it hard to think of a Labour woman who has any credence. They broke the mould with Barbara Castke and Shirley Williams, what women of integrity, outspoken well read and eloquent speakers. You couldn’t say that about Angela Rayner or Diane Abbot or anyone else they have I fear, mind you can’t think of any men they have either that’s up to it, Keir ok but he hasn’t an opinion of his own. He’s just a lawyer.

Better a lawyer leading us than a second rate journalists whose career is based on making up silly stories….( just what we need in a world pandemic)

If it’s a Tory
Cover up story.

The unexamined opinion is not worth having.

Opinions and principles are subjective - and can be argued and debated. FACTS are not.

As in "If you don't like my principles, I have others ...". Says it all.

... or found 'in their head' even ...

Kali2

... and this is just how we got to where we are now - in this Brexit disaster.

But, but..

How very dare we suggest that some leave voters made their choice on the strength of some un factchecked assertions they read or heard somewhere...

... and this is just how we got to where we are now - in this Brexit disaster.

Cherrytree59

We read online and newspapers, we then form our own opinions.
It would be nice if we had the time and inclination to fact check, but speaking purely for myself I don't.

But my opinion is as relevant as a fact checked opinion
Why?
Because I am the man in the street (UK) and I have a vote.

I will not wring my hands, talk my country down.

But if you don't check facts how can you possibly make an informed decision? On anything?

People who think their ill informed opinion is as valid as one with facts and evidence may have an equal vote, but their vote will be cast from a position of ignorance, thus creating many of the problems we have in our current political system, where charlatans and liars can pull the wool over peoples eyes.

I can see what you mean MaizieD.

I can see how Cherrytree59's opinion, however ill-informed it might be, could be relevant if it is influential in deciding the way she intends to vote.

But in a serious discussion it's useless and gives a poor impression of the validity of the points made by the opinion giver.. Sorry, that's just how it is.

You often said Brexit did not happen with May because she was a remainer at heart. But Johnson, Frost and Truss were much more remainers that she wver was. Frost and Truss made the case for Remain very strongly and repeatedly.