Mass migration’ from France to UK occurred 3,000 years ago

Baggs

Wiki confirms what I said (for what it's worth):

^Evolutionary history. According to the gene-culture coevolution hypothesis, the ability to digest lactose into adulthood (lactase persistence) became advantageous to humans after the invention of animal husbandry and the domestication of animal species that could provide a consistent source of milk.^

That's what I wrote @ 13.21.

And some like other in our family that made the long long voyage to the Cape.

Seems lending MrB my Kindle and then not using it for yonks has caused, um, buggerations. SSW's book is really good. I recommend it.

Meanwhile other authors to check out on this subject include Stephen Jay Gould and Jared Diamond.

I think the explanation I'm looking for is in Steve Stewart Williams's book, The ape that understood the universe but I can't check right now because it's on my Kindle which currently has a flat battery. Charging has cmmenced....

Wiki confirms what I said (for what it's worth):

Evolutionary history. According to the gene-culture coevolution hypothesis, the ability to digest lactose into adulthood (lactase persistence) became advantageous to humans after the invention of animal husbandry and the domestication of animal species that could provide a consistent source of milk.

Esspee

DNA is very accurate but them working out "ethnicity" it is only as good as the company's database.
As regards the lactose tolerance, for there to be such a huge percentage of people suddenly (in palaeontological terms) able to digest lactose definitely suggests a major wiping out of the indigenous population, perhaps through genocide, sickness or famine. Fascinating.

Not necessarily a wiping out. I think it's more a case of northern peoples evolving the ability to cope with milk products because of their ready availability from farm animals.

Just trying to remember the book with the best explanation..... will return with info if I find it.

www.theguardian.com/science/2021/dec/22/worlds-oldest-family-tree-costwolds-tomb-hazleton-north-long-cairn-dna

interesting article about the remains found in a tomb that is 5,700 years old with a family tree covering 5 generations. One man fathered children with 4 women. A bit like some of the apes when the alpha male impregnates most of the females.

Lactose tolerance has given Northern Europeans an evolutionary advantage.

M0nica

Since hominoids developed in Africa, anyone inhabiting this island and, indeed, the whole world, other than Africa, is an immigrant - and where does that get us?

An understanding of people's DNA undoubtedly upsets people who believe in a concept of nationhood. Scotland, for example, is remarkably diverse. There are at least six separate indigenous ethnic groupings in Scotland, with those in the south east having more in common with the English than they do with those in the north east or west. The idea of "English" DNA just doesn't exist. Nevertheless, an understanding of DNA and genetic difference contributes to knowledge of some heritable conditions.

Since hominoids developed in Africa, anyone inhabiting this island and, indeed, the whole world, other than Africa, is an immigrant - and where does that get us?

Esspee

DNA is very accurate but them working out "ethnicity" it is only as good as the company's database.
As regards the lactose tolerance, for there to be such a huge percentage of people suddenly (in palaeontological terms) able to digest lactose definitely suggests a major wiping out of the indigenous population, perhaps through genocide, sickness or famine. Fascinating.

Yes, it is fascinating.

From what I've read, I don't think anybody really knows why people should have become lactose tolerant so quickly. It could have been that farming methods and food sources changed. Dairy foods could have become a normal part of a diet and those who couldn't tolerate it would have died before reaching the age to be able to produce children. Darwinian "survival of the fittest" would have applied.

Calistemon

Oh not circles!
Autocorrect prowls the threads again

Coracles

The boats would possibly have been similar to this one:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dover_Bronze_Age_Boat

or these:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferriby_Boats

My DNA shows 40% European----could be anywhere though it did say Germany was more prominent.

I can digest anything

Interesting! People moved around the world long before we ever did, I think I read somewhere the Celts traversed Europe originally emanating from Turkey.

The Roma people originally came over a period of 1000 years from India, I always thought that was pretty interesting. One does wonder why, given they have been established in parts of eastern Europe for centuries those countries have done such an appalling job of assimilating them, inbuilt prejudice to a darker skin tone maybe?

I knew the Normans were originally from Scandinavia (Norsemen) what I've always wondered is when did the Plantagenets become more English than French, Richard I, Coeur de Lion, I read didn't speak a word of English but I imagine his brother John did.

Moving on to the Hanoverian period much later, similarly I think it took the Georges quite a few Georges before they became less Germanic and more English

Kali2

The Huguenots certainly left an amazing legagy- the best furniture makers, watch makers, jewellers and the much more. A very talented lot they were.

To be fair lemon- the Huguenots didn't really 'choose' to come to England- it was that or being tortured and killed in their thousands. So it was a short trip across the Channel, or walk across to further East (like my lot).

Huh?
Why is this comment directed at me? I haven’t mentioned the Huguenots.I thought we were talking about the people who crossed into Britain 3,000 years ago.

I love the Beaker People. I always think of them as being like Beaker from the Muppets!

The report I saw about the mass migration 3000 years ago was that they didn’t get to either Sardinia or Scotland. I wonder why not? Do Scots and Sardinians have less tolerance of dairy products, if they didn’t have that gene? So many questions! I have Huguenot ancestry myself, which I can date back precisely to 1688.

Speaking of Kent, their county insignia is Invicta, meaning unconquered. That is supposedly because when Willy the Konk invaded he couldn’t subdue the knights and barons of Kent and so they came to a gentleman’s agreement that he wouldn’t keep trying to vanquish them if they didn’t keep poking him with a stick. I don’t know whether there’s any truth in that story, though. ?

Mamie

It was pretty ripe for a bit of Conquering lemongrove. ??

That’s certainly what William thought at a later date.
Actually, the movement of ancient peoples across the world has been shown to be greater than was originally realised.
Humans are curious restless beings.

The Huguenots certainly left an amazing legagy- the best furniture makers, watch makers, jewellers and the much more. A very talented lot they were.

To be fair lemon- the Huguenots didn't really 'choose' to come to England- it was that or being tortured and killed in their thousands. So it was a short trip across the Channel, or walk across to further East (like my lot).

Well yes Kali2, but I was just pointing out that the distaff side were French, so in terms of the bloodline.....

It was pretty ripe for a bit of Conquering lemongrove. ??

Arnt these the Beaker people?

Mamie

Kali2 I think the original Norsemen / Normans were 50% French by the next generation. Then three more generations to get to William....

And about the same, but about 50% British on the Harold side.

The point I was making is that Harold and William were neither French, nor 'English' (those pesky Angles again...) but 3rd generation Viking immigrants- and that it was never about 'the French' against 'the English'... as so often portrayed when discussing Anglo-French relations. It was cousin against cousin, Viking against Viking - disputing the lands they had conquered.

The Angles and the Saxons were invading tribes from what we now know as Southern Germany and the Netherlands - is the point. They were never from our islands is the point.

Calistemon

And later still the Huguenots!

Did these Bronze Age people paddle over in little circles?
Very brave!

Ever decreasing circles??
It shows that the French really do have taste and style....wanting to settle in Britain.

Yes, another great example.

Now OH and us have contributed hugely in adding to the mix, as we both, and he especially, come from a long mixed lineage ...