BLM protesters cleared over toppling of Edward Colston statue

Sparklefizz
Have you heard of Nathaniel Wells?

She can’t get the verdict overturned but I agree that some clarification by the Court of Appeal as regards ‘lawful excuse’ in such circumstances would be helpful in future and may prevent the vandalism that some protesters may believe the judgment condones.

I see Braverman is treading where other Attorney Generals with more stature than her refused to tread.

She is interfering in judicial process.

Look at where politicising the judiciary gets you in the USA.

I wonder how many want that in the U.K.?

Calistemon

Sparklefizz

I walked past the Colston statue many times when I was working in that part of Bristol and I never even glanced at it.

I am not a Bristolian so maybe that's the reason why..... or maybe I was just busy with my own thoughts and my own life.

Oh, Sparklefizz I'm so glad you posted that! I didn't dare (I would be accused of lack of awareness!).
I have visited Bristol so many times and never even glanced at it either.
We know that Bristol's wealth came from slavery as did that of other cities. We know now (and I knew as a child) that slavery is wrong. I wish all the protests and energy would be put to better use trying to abolish present-day slavery.
Incidentally, just across the river from Bristol the son of a slave became High Sheriff.

If I glance at a statue it is usually because there is a pigeon or two sitting on its head going about its business ?
(Yes, I know it's a dove, not a pigeon)

I agree with you Calistemon .... there is enough present-day slavery to devote energy to eradicating.

Does anyone remember Marvin Humes on Who Do You Think You Are, tracing his ancestry back in Jamaica? He discovered that one of his ancestors, a freed slave, then immediately started keeping slaves himself and he was shocked. Enslaving was ... and is... not only committed by white people.

In the past, wealthy people set up hospitals, schools and libraries. Now they are self-indulgent and go on journeys into space instead. (Yes, Elon Musk, I mean you.)

The publishers of the right-wing press have expressed these contradictory views.

How do you know it’s the same people?

It is remarkable that the same people who think it is wrong to topple the statue of a slave trader because he also did some good, are signing a petition to prevent Tony Blair from receiving a knighthood.

Tony Blair took the UK into an illegal war, supported by most Labour and Tory MPs.

The Liberal Democrats and some others opposed the Iraq war and are only now seen to have got it right.

On the other hand the government led by Tony Blair did a lot of good things.

But the right wing media and their readers have one rule for Edward Colston and another for Tont Blair.

25Avalon

wicklowwinnie

Just a thought,

Are the people who object to statues of slave traders happy to use all the hospitals, colleges, and other public buildings built with slave traders money?

Most people don’t or didn’t even think about it. Unfortunately slavery was endemic across the whole of Europe including Britain and most of modern society was built on its roots. If we demolished everything there would probably be little left.

Quite!

Coalsnall ?

Coastpath

The Colston windows were removed from the Cathedral and St Mary Redcliffe Church in June 2020.

bristol-cathedral.co.uk/news/a-statement-on-colston-windows

Thanks Coastpath, I was due to go there recently but didn't because of Covid.

Sparklefizz

I walked past the Colston statue many times when I was working in that part of Bristol and I never even glanced at it.

I am not a Bristolian so maybe that's the reason why..... or maybe I was just busy with my own thoughts and my own life.

Oh, Sparklefizz I'm so glad you posted that! I didn't dare (I would be accused of lack of awareness!).
I have visited Bristol so many times and never even glanced at it either.
We know that Bristol's wealth came from slavery as did that of other cities. We know now (and I knew as a child) that slavery is wrong. I wish all the protests and energy would be put to better use trying to abolish present-day slavery.
Incidentally, just across the river from Bristol the son of a slave became High Sheriff.

If I glance at a statue it is usually because there is a pigeon or two sitting on its head going about its business ?
(Yes, I know it's a dove, not a pigeon)

Maisie do you think you can refrain from personally attacks. I do not think as you do, your unpleasant comments about me wanting hanging and so on will not alter my opinion just reinforce it.

Ah yes throw public money after a cause because you didn't get the result you wanted. What do you expect from a government that wants to criminalise asylum seekers. I doubt they'd know justice if it sat on them>

Zoejory

Whatever one thinks of this result, the Attorney general says Colston verdict is ‘confusing’ and considers referring case to Court of Appeal

That's the Attorney General who was perfectly happy to allow legislation that would break International Law, isn't it?

Fortunately, she can't actually get the jury's verdict overturned. This is theatre for the hard of thinking who would absolutely prefer an authoritarian state which had to be implicitly obeyed. No pesky juries allowed...

Whatever one thinks of this result, the Attorney general says Colston verdict is ‘confusing’ and considers referring case to Court of Appeal

MaizieD we (the U.K.) or any other country should never deny/whitewash it’s past.

The past is what has made us who we are today.

Education is the key for o understanding the past and it’s relevance to today’s values.

There's no reason why people couldn't be made aware of the source of the money that paid for those buildings. It is, after all, part of our history.

I never understood the whipped up hysteria over the National Trust doing more to make visitors aware of how many of its properties had been financed. Why should we close our eyes to history?

As someone with some slave ancestry I really can't get worked up about these buildings but I get very annoyed about attempts to whitewash our past...

wicklowwinnie

Just a thought,

Are the people who object to statues of slave traders happy to use all the hospitals, colleges, and other public buildings built with slave traders money?

As I've said before wicklowwinnie modern day society benefits and relies on housing and other buildings arising from the profits of the slave trade. Obviously this is not ideal, but to pull down these buildings and facilities would be of huge detriment to people living now.

Nobody benefits from statues. Colston's statue was standing proud in the centre of a multicultural city doing no good at all, in fact it was rubbing peoples' noses in the horror of the slave trade. Taking the statue down is an indication, with no cost to society, that we are acknowledging the past and are trying to do our best now.

wicklowwinnie

Just a thought,

Are the people who object to statues of slave traders happy to use all the hospitals, colleges, and other public buildings built with slave traders money?

Not much logic in this argument.

I wouldn’t use a service paid for by slavery now (why I would never go to Dubai). A statue celebrates a person. I wouldn’t particularly object to a statue becoming an educational object - so accompanied by a installation placing their actions in a historical context - and highlighting problems with the colonial past. But I understand why others may not want that and would rather see these people consigned to the dustbin of history. There are plenty of people who I’m sure you would object to a statue of - maybe imagine a statue of a person you see as the most offensive - and maybe you will then understand why statues of slave traders are problematic for many.

wicklowwinnie

Just a thought,

Are the people who object to statues of slave traders happy to use all the hospitals, colleges, and other public buildings built with slave traders money?

Most people don’t or didn’t even think about it. Unfortunately slavery was endemic across the whole of Europe including Britain and most of modern society was built on its roots. If we demolished everything there would probably be little left.

Just a thought,

Are the people who object to statues of slave traders happy to use all the hospitals, colleges, and other public buildings built with slave traders money?

Coastpath I was told to read Krekwaytopeakbristle when I first came to Bristol. My boss set it to us as a joke test - took us weeks to work out what the title meant! Walked round saying it out loud in as many different ways as we could ???

I laughed out loud at Coalsnall by the way....exactly right! I went there to see the Bay City Rollers. They were gert great.

Whitewavemark2 Thank you for drawing my attention to David Olusoga's excellent piece in the Guardian.

25Avalon I am certain Colston and the slave trade history have been widely taught and known in Bristol for decades, certainly since my school days in the 1960s. There are museums telling the story including a Georgian slave owners house open to the public always filled with school visits. Around the city place, building, school and pub names reference Colston and the slave trade. When I was at school we had Colston Day where church service were held, attended by schools. Colston Girls School pupils would go to the Cathedral and statue decked in 'Colston Flowers' to celebrate him - this only ended in 2016!!!

It's hard to believe that anyone living in or educated in Bristol would not be very well aware of Colston, and the city's links to the slave trade.

There is a petition out there called Save Our Statues. I laughed long and hard at it this morning then thought what a shame people don’t get so enraged about food banks or people choosing between eating and heating.

This definitely shows the benefits of the jury system - it can buffer the impact of the law being an ass.

Coastpath

The Colston windows were removed from the Cathedral and St Mary Redcliffe Church in June 2020.

bristol-cathedral.co.uk/news/a-statement-on-colston-windows

Thank you, coastpath. I'm glad to hear it.