Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

Jaberwok

No one has said that it invasion is inevitable, what has been said is that IF Russia decides to annex Ukraine, realistically the West is powerless to stop them. IF Russia then turns its attention elsewhere, this time to a NATO country, what then? Macron got absolutely no where with Putin, the meeting was a farce, nice try, but realistically futile. Russia holds all the cards here and as for sanctions, I don't think Putin cares, after all when people in Russia stuffer sanctions are a useful tool to stir up public hatred against the West

I wonder if you would like to outline Macrons plan? So that we can judge for ourselves whether it was a farce?

Yes it may end in failure and without USA support this is more likely, but diplomacy is always a better outcome, even if it means a degree of compromise, than war which never ever ends well.

We have members on this site who have family members in the armed forces, imagine the implication if Biden with Johnson on his coat tails continues with his hard line stance, war must never seen as a better alternative to diplomacy.

My DH was in the Fleet Air arm for many years during the retreat from Empire. The Far East was particularly dangerous especially the retreat from Aden. But, when you join HM forces you have to expect anything from peace keeping to outright warfare, otherwise you shouldn't join, no one makes you these days.

Novara Media take They think Starmer should not start fighting talk more diplomacy is needed.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bqi2Ox2y-w4

Whitewavemark2

We have members on this site who have family members in the armed forces, imagine the implication if Biden with Johnson on his coat tails continues with his hard line stance, war must never seen as a better alternative to diplomacy.

I am one of those Whitewavemark2 I have to believe that the U.K. will not deploy fighting troops as opposed to instructors/trainers

Again, the UK is still part of NATO, but its role in Europe has changed totally. The UK, via Johnson, does not represent NATO, does NOT have a mandate. And the whole of Europe is massively worried about him and Truss, and Wallace, going in with threats, undermining diplomacy.

''As Europe pushes for peace, clueless Johnson snipes from the sidelines

Simon Tisdall in the Guardian

Brexit Britain’s isolated leaders resort to posturing and fist-waving over Ukraine while France’s Macron pursues diplomatic solutions in Moscow''

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

We have members on this site who have family members in the armed forces, imagine the implication if Biden with Johnson on his coat tails continues with his hard line stance, war must never seen as a better alternative to diplomacy.

I am one of those Whitewavemark2 I have to believe that the U.K. will not deploy fighting troops as opposed to instructors/trainers

Anyone of any sense will think the same. We must put every effort in diplomacy and compromise and refuse to go down the lines of warlike rhetoric.

That doesn’t have to mean appeasement but realistic and hard fought diplomacy. Something which at one time the U.K. was very good at - but no longer.

I don't think the West will send fighting troops on the ground to Ukraine, but if a NATO country is threatened we may have to then. I think the Kremlin made it quite clear that whatever assurances were given to President Macron by P.Putin that they were in fact a misunderstanding and that Russia is only interested in talking to Washington not Paris, so who knows what to believe. If true, this would be another dilemma for the West bearing in mind the present occupant of the White House and his Administrations handling of Afghanistan.

My Nephew phoned to say goodbye to myself and my Husband last night, his Regiment have been deployed. Having sat at home whilst my Husband and Father of my children fought in Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Kosovo i hoped we would never have to go through this again, thoughts and prayers are with all those who have family in the Armed Forces.

Unfortunately when you join the armed forces, armed conflict and putting yourself in mortal danger is potentially part of what you are signing up for. We all hope it won't happen but obviously are aware that it might and presumably take that on board before joining. As in all dangerous occupations, we all hope it won't happen but are fully aware that it might not once but several times during your service.

This is chillig grannypiper- you must be so worried, and I am sorry.

However, are you allowed to say that he has been deployed on Social Media?

thoughts are with you grannypiper….

Copied from a friend:

''I think this plays really well into Putin's hand as it shows the discord within EU and NATO and thus undermines Ukraine's safety even more.

This is what I meant when I said that the objectives of Putin are already achieved and one more step and he's likely to suffer consequences and actually consolidate the West against him. Right now he has them exactly where he wants them to be - disunited, chaotic and clueless. No wonder Putin was so keen to influence the Brexit vote to divide Europe''.

I personally think that Putin is having a laugh. No doubt he would like to take Ukraine back under Russian control and I sincerely hope that he doesn't.

Russia has been expanding ever since Ivan the Terrible doubled its size during his reign. Peter the Great and Catherine the Great also expanded the country. In 1793 a large chunk of Ukraine was acquired during the second partition of Poland.

After WW1 The USSR was formed comprising 15 republics. Fast forward to the 80s and the economic decline which exacerbated ethnic tensions and promoted regionalism and nationalism. This combined with Gorbachev's attempts at glasnot and the subsequent backlash against his efforts lead to a coup which was ultimately unsuccessful.

In 1991 the USSR started to break up. Putin had been a KGB officer for 16 years prior to its dissolution, also in 1991. The head of the KGB was one of the leaders of the coup and it's likely that Putin would have been in favour of it. In 1991 Putin decided to go into politics and the rest his history.

I think that Putin is taking pleasure in seeing the West disagreeing over the actions to be taken over the current situation. He is a puppet master. The language of Biden, Johnson and Truss seems to be inflaming the situation. It's certainly not helping.

No I don't think Putin does give a toss about sanctions and if he wants to invade Ukraine he will, if he doesnt, he won't, simple as that. I'm not sure that troop deployment information should be put out on social media.

grannypiper gave no specifics in her post.

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu.

Dinahmo I think "puppet master" is an apt label for Putin. If anybody has a good claim to be "king of the world", it's him.

I do not want a PM who lies and ignores rules and regulations to be dealing with the invasion of Ukraine by the Russians. If he can't be trusted to run 10 Downing Street in an orderly manner, what makes you think that he can deal with what could turn out to be a major conflict? Partygate isn't a trivial thing to be forgotten, it tells us what sort of a man he is, and he is not the sort of person we need to handle this crisis. Johnson needs to go and be replaced by someone we can trust to do the right thing.

Perhaps that is exactly the sort of man we do need to combat a wily twisting devious man like Putin, Playing the game and being squeaky clean has never won any battles. If the enemy can predict your every move and trust every utterance, you will be over run in less time than it takes to shout 'truce'. WW2 certainly wasn't won by being gentlemanly and saying 'after you'.

Jaberwok

Perhaps that is exactly the sort of man we do need to combat a wily twisting devious man like Putin, Playing the game and being squeaky clean has never won any battles. If the enemy can predict your every move and trust every utterance, you will be over run in less time than it takes to shout 'truce'. WW2 certainly wasn't won by being gentlemanly and saying 'after you'.

Johnson is too chaotic and lazy to run a war or take part in intelligent diplomacy.

Besides he has not either won our trust or respect as prime minister

Kali2

This is chillig grannypiper- you must be so worried, and I am sorry.

However, are you allowed to say that he has been deployed on Social Media?

It has been reported in the newspapers so not a secret.
They would be part of a NATO force and ready to help if there is a surge of refugees fleeing Ukraine.

Callistemon21

Kali2

This is chillig grannypiper- you must be so worried, and I am sorry.

However, are you allowed to say that he has been deployed on Social Media?

It has been reported in the newspapers so not a secret.
They would be part of a NATO force and ready to help if there is a surge of refugees fleeing Ukraine.

Correct ?

Jaberwok

Perhaps that is exactly the sort of man we do need to combat a wily twisting devious man like Putin, Playing the game and being squeaky clean has never won any battles. If the enemy can predict your every move and trust every utterance, you will be over run in less time than it takes to shout 'truce'. WW2 certainly wasn't won by being gentlemanly and saying 'after you'.

Strangely enough, the Allies would possibly not have won WW2, if Russia hadn't entered WW2 in 1941. Putin is a better strategist than Hitler ever was. I see no need to fight him, as we'd probably lose. What we do need is strong leadership - or at least somebody who isn't seen as a modern-day Mr Blobby.

Yes that could well be true, but at a very high cost to the countries of Eastern Europe who went from one tyranny to another including East Germany. Protecting Poland from Hitler was one thing, Stalin? A complete No,No. Stalin was completely ruthless and threatened the West for years as did his successors. There was a brief period when it did look as if we could all live in freedom and peace, but with advent of Putin that now looks under severe threat and in danger of becoming a distant dream.