Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think?

This debate is indeed very depressing, especially for those of us who are desperate not to have another Tory government come the next General Election. While the Labour Party split themselves into factions, argue about who is more true to the cause, fail to recognise that most members are not, as Annibach eloquently put it clinging to the days of coal mines, iron works, pigeon lofts, Dai caps and working mens clubs, the Tory party clap their hands, spread more disinformation and scare tactics regarding 'the cost of covid19' and sit back smug in their majority. Starmer has been a disappointment to me, I keep waiting for him to show a spark, but, maybe he is playing a long game, and letting the smug liar currently in office, hang himself. It certainly looks like it.

Yes it's a mystery Dinahmo why people didnt enjoy being called stupid.

MayBee70

Corbyn delivered us. Tory party with an 80+ majority that are ripping apart democracy…..

That's true but the reasons? Provided by the Tory MSM. I just can't get my head around why people voted for the "elite" that we have now. I know the answer - it's because "Boris is one of us" or "Boris will see us right" . The latter came from middle aged men, sharing a room away from home, working on zero hours contracts, in a Channel 4 interview. To put it mildly I was shocked.

Just watched part of Politics Live - the young Tory on there, I think from a Red Wall constituency did nothing but trot out the party line. He must have something in his head but I don't think there were many brains.

adly the people who mention Corbyn the most are those who claim to be "centre left" and support Starmer.

Oh, FGS, trisher. You are making things up and being a tad insulting.

I liked Corbyn, I liked the LP manifestos and thought they could work. I voted Labour in the last 2 GEs. But I am not prepared to spend my time bickering with people who don't seem to care about the good of the country above internal party politics.

I don't think that Starmer is the monster you & Grany paint him to be, any more than Corbyn is the monster the media painted him to be, and, however imperfect his 'left wing' credentials might be I had much rather that he was PM than the utterly appalling apology for a human being we have in post now.

I, like Casdon am going to leave the building now because I think this debate is futile and utterly depressing.

Unite the party trisher it will never unite until some stop clinging to the days of coal mines, iron works, pigeon lofts,
Dai caps and working mens clubs.

Corbyn delivered us. Tory party with an 80+ majority that are ripping apart democracy…..

No Dinahmo sadly the people who mention Corbyn the most are those who claim to be "centre left" and support Starmer. It's supposed to be a way of dismissing those of us who see the faults with a leader who promised much and has delivered little. I don't think I'm living in the past. I think many of us on the left see the harm the Tories have done and then look at Starmer and can see little he proposes will undo that harm. So we want a definite statement from him about policies an end to targetting the left, and steps to unite the party. Things he consistently fails to do.

Kali2 I agree with you that the left of the LP will never win an election because, as you say, the world has moved on; times have changed.

I remember back in the eighties whilst on holiday in Italy we met an author who had just had a large advance for her second novel. We were discussing politics and she mentioned her father, a Nottinghamshire miner, who still held what today would be regarded as extremely left wing views.

The post was baby boomers had access to health and education unheard of before the war. All of us, not just those whose parents could to pay. Better health and education led many of us be able to have good careers and buy our own homes for example. The LP did not recognise those changes.

I sometimes think that some of the LP still don't recognise that and it's possibly the reason why those members who live in affluent areas, like Islington come under attack from members of Momentum. There are thousands of people in the country who still support Labour and do so because they want to see an improvement in living standards for everyone.

Did anyone see that documentary a few nights ago called The Decade when the Rich Got Richer (or something similar) It showed how after the bank bailout the loans weren't repaid (Tory govt) and the money found it's way into the pockets of the very rich who then moved it offshore At the same time Osborne was banging on about austerity and cutting the higher rate of tax at the same time as benefits were also being cut.

There are many more people living in poverty now than there were during the Blair/Brown years.

And the Tories are still at it. Not bothering to go after the Bounce Back Loan fraudsters but increasing NIC.

Trisher
Surely most of the people on here who mention Corbyn are the Tories who regularly tell us that Johnson has done a good job during the pandemic and they dread to think what would have happened if JC was PM.

trisher

I wonder why the only people who keep bringing Corbyn up are the Starmer supporters. I never mention him. I know he''s gone. It seems the only way the right can justify the absolute destruction Starmer has brought as leader is to say - "Well you want Corbyn back." I don't. I want a leader who will do as he promised and unite the party. I don't want a witch hunt that chucks out Jews who support Palestine, members of groups they don't like, outspoken local activists or forces others to resign because they find a complete lack of compromise from the right. I want a leader who doesn't throw money away, gathers support from working people and the Unions and acknowledges the independence of local parties. I don't want a right wing bigot who lies, deceives and gathers power to Westminster central.

I understand perfectly and agree with you trisher

And there are many others who don't like way KS is leading the party.

Now there are left wing parties starting up and these have all grouped together now it's called PAL an alternative socialist Party.

People need choice

It seems to me that point scoring about people, using hackneyed terms ('Westminster bubble' , it sounds like a Brexiteer motif...), is completely unproductive.

Here is a Labour offering on work, the economy, regional powers and more. Isn't that what we should be critiquing?

It sounds reasonable to me. (Though calling it a 'covenant' reminds me irresistibly of poor ED's 'written in stone')

labourlist.org/2022/01/who-and-what-does-labour-stand-for-labours-covenant-offers-an-answer/

I wonder why the only people who keep bringing Corbyn up are the Starmer supporters. I never mention him. I know he''s gone. It seems the only way the right can justify the absolute destruction Starmer has brought as leader is to say - "Well you want Corbyn back." I don't. I want a leader who will do as he promised and unite the party. I don't want a witch hunt that chucks out Jews who support Palestine, members of groups they don't like, outspoken local activists or forces others to resign because they find a complete lack of compromise from the right. I want a leader who doesn't throw money away, gathers support from working people and the Unions and acknowledges the independence of local parties. I don't want a right wing bigot who lies, deceives and gathers power to Westminster central.

There was no Westminter bubble here just a lot of people who didnt vote for her. The electorate were quite clear about what they wanted or rather didnt.

It's not that I dont like her Trisher, it's that she was a terrible constituency MP and I have been vaguely worried that she would seek selection again. This indicates that wont be the case.

No trisher, no

''f not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer''

it is because we are possibly on the edge of a GE, or at least in a couple of years- and the LP is to be ready to face up to the challenge, and to win. Because the alternative does not bear even thinking about.

Whether this is right, or wrong, or anything in between- the Labour left will never ever win in the world of today. The world has changed, aspitrations have changed. Divided, THEY will rule again. And Starmer, educated and very intelligent, very experience and calm, principled (yes oh yes) - who wants decent education and health service for all, and a strong safety net for those who fall + help to get up again and contribute to the common good- is exactly what the UK needs and what will win.

Corbyn has gone, and forever. The past is the past. The LP has to adjust and strive forwards. With the above in mind, but with a strong economy and incentives to do well- with a fair tax system with no holes in it for the very rich- but without the kind of visceral hatred for anyone who works very hard and does well- and an economy that will thrive with them and fair taxes.

Iam64

Galaxy

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

Yes, she is no loss to the Labour party

She hasn't left the LP she has resigned from the NEC. showing once again how Starmer is failing to unite the party.

Galaxy

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

Yes, she is no loss to the Labour party

So there you have it exactly how the right on the LP behave to the left wing. Laura Piddock could spend two years trying to work with Starmer and the right of the party, trying to reach a compromise, trying to establish centre ground and a united party, but when it becomes impossible and she has to leave someone thinks it is OK because they didn't like her. It isn't the left who are entrenched and refusing to shift, it is the right. And the ridiculous thing is they do so with no proof whatsoever that their views are supported by any of the electorate. The Westminster bubble goes from strength to strength.

Yes I am delighted she was my MP. Winning elections was not something that was important to her. This means there is no chance she will stand again in this area.

Breaking: Pidcock resigns NEC – ‘the right will never do right thing’

Leader devoid of vision for anything but party control, says former MP

Former Labour MP Laura Pidcock has resigned from the party’s national executive, blaming the determination of the right to keep.doing wrong – and Keir Starmer’s lack of political ideas.

Here is her full statement

skwawkbox.org/2022/01/26/breaking-paddock-resigns-nec-the-right-will-never-do-right-thing/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=breaking-paddock-resigns-nec-the-right-will-never-do-right-thing

So it's OK for you to keep making allegations about left wingers and my attitude towards Starmer, and to question my views Casdon but you've already given yours so any discussion isn't necessary and would be boring. Well at least I know that my posts can't be boring or you wouldn't keep asking would you?
By the way should the party split I do wonder where Starmer would get his money from. The Unions would fund the left plus thousands of people would rejoin and pay their fees and some would leave Starmer. I wonder how many members he would have left? And if he could afford to fight an election.

trisher

MayBee70

At this moment in time what could possibly be better than an opposition leader who knows the letter of the law inside out? And knows when to keep quiet and let people incriminate themselves.

Well one who won't be regarded by the red wall as a Westminster Centralist Remain leader for a start. You may think he knows when to keep quiet, others might think he just has nothing to say.
He has just effectively proved the Red Wall right the Labour party is a Westminster party and doesn't really care about regional support.

Trisher
You couldn’t be more right. They haven’t a clue ?

No, It’s because I don’t want to bore the rest of Gransnet again with an argument we have rehearsed what already feels like a hundred times trisher.

trisher

OK Casdon you won't answer or tell me why it was OK for Starmer to reinstate those responsible for the alleged offences at the time of the 2017 election, or if you are happy that an inquiry has taken over two years to report. So lets do a parrallel situation. Would you be happy if it was alleged that certain Downing Street employees were responsible for the party held there during lockdown but Boris continued to guarantee their employment? Or if he delayed the findings of an inquiry into that party for a couple of years?
If not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer.

Well Said trisher

OK Casdon you won't answer or tell me why it was OK for Starmer to reinstate those responsible for the alleged offences at the time of the 2017 election, or if you are happy that an inquiry has taken over two years to report. So lets do a parrallel situation. Would you be happy if it was alleged that certain Downing Street employees were responsible for the party held there during lockdown but Boris continued to guarantee their employment? Or if he delayed the findings of an inquiry into that party for a couple of years?
If not why is that so important, but OK that the shenanigans that possibly influenced a general election, and therefore the democratic process, can be ignored? Simply it seems because you like Starmer.