Nicola Sturgeon vows to start process of second independence referendum

Had to laugh last night chatting to my (almost) 90y old stepfather, born in the West Highlands to wish him a happy Burns Night. He doesn’t like porridge or haggis either. I love both! He does enjoy a wee dram every afternoon though.
?

I have no real connections to Scotland- visited twice as a touris, loved it, but that is it. And was always a strong supporter of keeping the Union whole, including at the last Independence vote. I'd hate to see Scotland choose to go. But I would totally and absolutely understand why- and how much the Union has changed since the last vote- Brexit being a huge factor.

Seeing the way other European countries sees England now- and all the distrust and negativity, and damage done by the current Government via Brexit and reneging on the Deal- I am absolutely sure Europe would rally round and make sure Scotland is given all the support, and trade links/financial links- required to make it a success.

Oh, that was one-eighth

DH (about ⅛ Scottish) forgot so I'm cooking him one tonight.
(I'll have something else.)

My haggis (veggie) was too dry. I think I microwaved it for too long.

I was remembering with nostalgia the happy days when Gransnetters used to wish one another Happy Burns night etc!

Now it just seems to be acrimonious threads about Scottish independence



Hope Scottish Gransnetters enjoyed their haggis, neeps and tatties.

The question was posed, “where is the money coming from”. The answer is, as given above, taxation, revenue…all the places that any other country might want to raise money from. So as an independent country, Scotland will be just as able as any other country to raise money on which to finance its society. In fact, with Scotland’s natural resources and knowledge economy, amongst other things, it is very well placed to raise money.

So the question is really, I think, can they be trusted to spend it and manage it properly? So the implication is that in all the 5.4 million people who inhabit this country, we can’t find people who know enough about economics to put together a decent budget. Which I don’t believe is the case. But for those who think it is, the answer is just to stick with the devil we know and let rUK decide how much money we get to spend and how we spend it. As if we were immature teenagers.

Whisper it – perhaps we won’t have all the benefits we currently have. Perhaps we’ll have to give up baby boxes. Finland, with almost the same population as us seem to have found a way through. Maybe you think they’re just cleverer than us?

As for the insulting term “neverendum”. Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Greens of course, put the commitment to another referendum in their most recent manifestos and that’s what the people of Scotland voted for. Whether all SNP voters support independence or not, they voted for the SNP and by extension they expect what is in the manifesto to be acted on. Or if they don’t they need to pay more attention to how politics works. However it suits some factions to personalise the desire for independence into the person of Sturgeon, but what you are actually doing is being scornful of the people of Scotland who actually voted for this course of action, whether you like it or not.

Almost as ridiculous is the insistence on talking about separatists, because it’s a device for painting the independence supporters as people who want to break things up, make things divisive. The only divisive comments on this thread have come from the people suggesting we are racists, scroungers and idiots. (I paraphrase).

Unfortunately Alegrias pie in the sky economics don't convince. Even the SNP haven't worked out the economic case or the currency question or the trading borders and so much more
The separatists exist in a bubble of people who agree with them just as the unionists only ever hear about the benefits of the union with the other countries of Great Britain. The divide is dangerously deep and sharp. Only trouble lies ahead if Sturgeon continues a neverendum.

My relatives in Scotland, including those who moved to Scotland just to benefit from their fee free university places, are split between leave (independence) and remain. The firm my DH worked for who employed him because he lived in England and could help them extend their business, want remain. The hotel where we stayed talked about leaving. I just wish the vote could go ahead. Sexit is like Brexit all over again, reading the posts on here.
Leave-I wish Scotland all the best. Remain-I’m glad Scotland will still be part of the UK.

I’m English, but can understand why some want Scottish Independence. For me it will be a sad day.

England’s parliament could move to some Brexitty voting place like Sunderland

It's always asked how a small country like Scotland could survive independently - the three Baltic states have a combined population of around six million and they seem to be doing OK.

Several posters have described where the money will come from.

Several posters have described how the Scottish Parliament was designed not to return majorities. (Although the SNP did manage it once)

So the continued need to ask the same questions over and over again demonstrates a certain degree of obduracy.

Once again, where would the money come from to pay for all the promised wonderful benefits?
Even pushing the voting age down to 16 and promising free bikes and laptops (no sign of them yet by the way) didn't help get a clear majority last May.

ALEGRIAS1, you are incorrect once again re " there is no such constituency as buchan" .....see below. I await your apology

Is that right?

Banff and Buchan. The good people of Banff and the surrounding areas will not take it kindly that you have decided to erase them from the electoral map.

I lived there for 20 years. Family still live there. Nobody calls the constituency Buchan, ever. Buchan is an entirely different thing.

No apology. If you're going to argue Scottish politics, get you facts right.

As a Londoner I agree Rosie51. We could join the EU and London could get back lots of the jobs it lost as centre of Euro finances. After all 70+ % of Londoners voted remain which is a proper significant majority. We have a bigger population than many independent countries. And are truly diverse and multinational. England’s parliament could move to some Brexitty voting place like Sunderland.

I would like London to go for independence, a bit like The Vatican City. With a population approaching 9 million, the most diverse, multi-heritage population throughout the UK, we are unique. Nowhere else in the UK has anything like the diversity and inclusiveness of London. We deserve to govern ourselves for the benefit of all our citizens, including those from the richest echelons to the most deprived.

Independence can't come soon enough for me. And almost every other Scot I know.

Even my English friends are telling me they wish they could come and vote YES, then move here, as Nicola Sturgeon is such a great leader.

For those who say Scotland couldn't pay for itself - splurge out £7.50 on the book (which has references to where the info comes from) "Scotland The Brief" by
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp

The sooner we're rid of the corrupt shysters in Westminster the better. Oh, and don't forget - if you're not, like me, a huge fan of the SNP - it doesn't matter. Vote for Independence, then promote whatever other Party you like.

(I doubt you'll win, unless it's maybe the Greens, but vote away.) It's just that most of us realise that it's the SNP who've given us free prescriptions; baby boxes; free travel for the elderly AND the Disabled AND the 5 -21 year olds; shorter waiting lists in the NHS than England's had for years, and a far more sensible and robust approach to Covid.

Just to name a few.

ALEGRIAS1, you are incorrect once again re " there is no such constituency as buchan" .....see below. I await your apology

Alexander Elliot Anderson Salmond (/ˈsæmənd/; born 31 December 1954) is a Scottish politician who served as First Minister of Scotland from 2007 to 2014, currently serving as leader of the Alba Party since 26 March 2021. He was previously the leader of the Scottish National Party (SNP), serving two terms, from 1990 to 2000 and from 2004 to 2014. He was the Member of Parliament (MP) for Banff and Buchan from 1987 to 2010, when he stood down to focus on his role as First Minister, and then for Gordon from 2015 to 2017. Salmond was the Depute Leader of the SNP from 1987 to 1990 and was a Member of the Scottish Parliament (MSP) from 1999 to 2001 and 2007 to 2016.

Nicola Sturgeon has spent most if the Covid crisis bleating about wanting more money from Westminster for Scotland. If we become independent where on earth is money coming from ?

I don't have a list MaizieD but if I did you'd be on it. ?

Alegrias1

But it's been proved on numerous occasions in many surveys that the people voting for brexit were likely to have lower educational levels that those voting to remain.

Them's the facts ma'am.

Brexiteers have never been very keen on facts, Alegrias.

I hope you include me in your list of pro Scots. I did post an evidenced refutation of the argument that England subsidises Scotland earlier. ?

Power to your elbow I say. My Scottish born niece & nephew would be delighted....

But it's been proved on numerous occasions in many surveys that the people voting for brexit were likely to have lower educational levels that those voting to remain.

Them's the facts ma'am.

And be very careful about talking about levels of education and suggesting that maybe those who think differently to you about independence are ill-educated. That would be a mistake

I just wish Brexiteers had been given the same consideration Alegrias
?

As a Scot living in Scotland I am happy with Nicola Sturgeon. I don't think of her as a nippy sweetie, or a Krankie, but as an able and respectable politician. She is hardworking and honourable, unlike other leaders within this country. The SNP win elections because the people support them. In Scotland we have a PR system that is designed to prevent single parties gaining control, but the popularity of the SNP is such that they have gained a full majority in the past and the minority parties crow that the SNP didn't get a full majority at the last election, but they did win, and indeed at the last election independence supporting parties won a majority of the vote. That is the mandate for holding a referendum. Holding a referendum isn't the end of the world, if the Scots truly don't want independence they won't vote for it, but if they do, they should be given the opportunity.

As a Scot who lives in Scotland I must say I am sick fed up of Nicola Sturgeon aka Nippy Sweetie ranting on about independence . We had a referendum and we voted against independence. I am certain that if we had voted for independence then Ms Sturgeon would not entertain another referendum. I am very proud to be Scottish and British. I find it sad and embarrassing that some Scots dislike the English - very small minded.