Legacy of the fraudulent referendum

I never said it was a virtue Alegrias.
Stop putting words in my mouth.

I’d love to be able to speak Spanish fluently! I’ve tried Duolingo for months.
I’m okay with food and drink.
Himself is better than me. He can manage numbers, directions, telling the time, left, right, etc.
I struggle.
I’m not proud of it. I can only try my best.

... we seem to have diverged from the OP’s topic.
?

When I went on holiday to Tunisia the guide who took us round historic sites linked with Muslim sciences and history insisted that the veil and coverings worn by some women had no place in Tunisian culture. They were he said Immigrants.

Urmstongran

Professional Muslim men don’t seem to mind integration.
‘Blue collar’ Muslim men? Hell, no.

What a disgusting comment. I lived in Leicester for nearly 35 years, and this is truly shocking.

Alegrias, other non British speakers are not categorised into 'good at languages or not' - they have to learn, to get on, to succeed, and they do. Like 90% + of the Dutch, be they scientists or 'linguists'. We are not talking here about accurate use of complicated forms of grammar, but communication, warts and all. Only Anglo-Saxons will use 'I am not good at languages issues'. In many European countries, some University courses are now taught only in English even.

Urmstongran

Have you been down the curry mile in Manchester Alegiras?
Not a woman to be seen in those restaurants.
At home - with the kids.
Most don’t speak English. Some do, of course. Grandmothers?
Not so much.

That's very odd. Curry is largely an Indian or Pakistani dish. And while most Pakistanis are Muslim most Indians are Hindu.So it's difficult to see how the Muslim rule applies.
We have a cupls of very nice Lebanese restaurants which always seem to have large family groups in them.

My good friend, a grandmother, is a retired economist. Born in the subcontinent, lived here for decades, never worn a hijab or any other form of religious dress.

Oh, did I mention? She's a Muslim. Like her husband.

You don't even know when you're being offensive, Urmstongran. Stop trying to squirm out of it.

Professional Muslim men don’t seem to mind integration.
‘Blue collar’ Muslim men? Hell, no.

I have no problem with people not being able to learn a language Urmstongran. I can't draw. Never been any good at sports whatsoever. Some of us are able to do things other people can't.

But holding it up as a virtue because other people are lucky enough to be able to practice their English? Nah, not on.

Urmstongran

vegansrock

People commenting on Asians in the U.K. speaking their own language and living in cultural enclaves might remember that the British did exactly the same when they colonised their countries.

Totally get that vegansrock. Like attracts like of course.
But in the West, women are allowed out on their own
To shop.
To work.
Muslim men won’t allow their womenfolk that choice. No wonder their children, brought up in the West with all its freedoms, struggle because of medieval constraints at home.

Urmstongran you really can't make a sweeping statement like that about Muslims. Islam is a huge faith which covers many countries and some have different customs to others. Many British Muslim women live independent and free lives. Some choose to wear the hijab some don't, but it is just that a choice. Just like Chritianity it is practised in many different ways.

Have you been down the curry mile in Manchester Alegiras?
Not a woman to be seen in those restaurants.
At home - with the kids.
Most don’t speak English. Some do, of course. Grandmothers?
Not so much.

Stop being smug Alegiras.
You mean me (18y is the clue).

Yes it sounds a lot but for 12y we just holidayed there, 4 weeks annual leave a YEAR.

And as I’ve already pointed out, I have tried to learn Spanish.
I’m not good with it.
So shoot me.

Muslim men won’t allow their womenfolk that choice.

I must mention that to all the Muslim men (and women) I know.

Really, quite a ridiculous thing to say Urmstongran

I’m sure actually living in Europe must make a huge difference to one’s mindset Kali2.
Not at all comparable with being a second home owner or holidaymaker, who just visit and pay their taxes elsewhere.

It’s a universal 2nd language.
Sorry if that annoys you.

What a bizarre thing to say. Que sorprendente. Not.

Anyway, I'm really grateful that so many people understand a bit of the language I learnt to speak as a child. Makes life easier.

However, if I'd been going to the same place several times a year for 18 years and couldn't master the local language, I'd probably not console myself with the fact that the local chaps were jolly pleased about it and were benefitting from it because they get to learn English.

Indeed Mamie, our visit to the Dordogne was 6 years ago.

Difficult to judge here in our regions, as so few British 'expats' are here. In our Valley, we know all of them, but they are all married to locals and have been here for so long and all speak fluent French- not an option here. We love getting together and have a good chinwag, and share British fare, usually home-made as there are no specialist shops, or brought back from a visit to the UK- but all very well 'integrated' and part of the Community.

vegansrock

People commenting on Asians in the U.K. speaking their own language and living in cultural enclaves might remember that the British did exactly the same when they colonised their countries.

Totally get that vegansrock. Like attracts like of course.
But in the West, women are allowed out on their own
To shop.
To work.
Muslim men won’t allow their womenfolk that choice. No wonder their children, brought up in the West with all its freedoms, struggle because of medieval constraints at home.

Covid has also meant that a lot more people have gone back or stayed in the UK. You really would not want to risk being here without health cover or residence card in Covid. No place to hide in lockdown.

Our experience is that a lot of people have gone halfpint1. When we went shopping in our nearest city it used to be common to hear English in DiY shops etc. Now it is very unusual. A lot of people who tried to run businesses went back before Brexit, then another wave afterwards. I think the numbers were also distorted by long-stay second home owners, who have gone. Young folk went because they couldn't make a living, older folk have died or gone after bereavement. Our experience of those that have stayed is that they are pretty rooted in French communities.
I think there was a time when places were as Kali2 describes, but I honestly don't think it is now. 165,000 is not that many in a country the size of France.

Of course S1 is legal for British retirees to use the NHS- the ones I mentionned are early retirees who are not entitled to S1, and just use an old address, or a relative's address- and who illegally stayed on their GPs list.

Mamie

Where is that in France Kali2? We went to Eymet when we were on our holiday in the Dordogne and I would say about a third of the stalls were British (excellent pork pies, very nice after two years without). I have never come across anywhere 100% British in France.
Also of course, we can legitimately use our S1 forms in Britain for the NHS (not that we would want to unless taken ill there).

Yes, in that region. We just could not believe our eyes or ears. Stall after stall, we asked abut stuff on sale, in French, and the reply came in English. We sat on terrasses, and everyone spoke English. We are all bilingual in our family, and we just could not believe it. It felt all wrong- and totally unbalanced. It made us all feel uncomfortable and embarrassed.

The waiters didn't even try to speak French, and automatically spoke English.

0nly 160,000 resident cards? The figure for Brits in France used to be bandied about at double that, was it so wrong ?
So have they left as living 'under the radar ' is a risky
business now.

Surely we can never reconcile ourselves to living in a country ruled by liars?

Ladyleftfieldlover

The year of 2016 was one of the worst in my lifetime. Brexit and the election of trump. I sometimes read back through my journals and the despair, anger and dismay shines through. I think we could call 2016 the year of the lie.

Same here. I can still remember referendum night: it was one long nightmare. I just wanted to forget about politics in my old age and let my children worry about their children’s future but I can’t recall a day since then when I haven’t felt anger or a week when I haven’t protested in some way or written to politicians. And the year of the lie just led to some strange acceptance that lying was a normal part of politics.

Where is that in France Kali2? We went to Eymet when we were on our holiday in the Dordogne and I would say about a third of the stalls were British (excellent pork pies, very nice after two years without). I have never come across anywhere 100% British in France.
Also of course, we can legitimately use our S1 forms in Britain for the NHS (not that we would want to unless taken ill there).

People commenting on Asians in the U.K. speaking their own language and living in cultural enclaves might remember that the British did exactly the same when they colonised their countries.

You can go to some towns in the South of Spain, Cyprus, in parts of France- where the local language is not heard at all- and shops and restaurants, markets, etc- cater almost 100% to those incomers

Good point Kali2.
‘Horses for courses’ comes to mind. ?