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News & politics

Sue Gray report

(428 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 31-Jan-22 12:50:53

Terms of reference.

t.co/e7jc9PUuJz

Worth reading before making assumptions etc about the report.

varian Mon 07-Feb-22 15:33:41

Greta

I watched the House of Lord debate from 31 January on the Sue Gray initial report and was surprised just how damning of Boris Johnson the peers' contributions were. The Leader of the House, Baroness Evans looked very uncomfortable and just kept repeating the same old excuses, i.e. the PM has apologised, he does understand that people are upset but now the government must focus on delivering on the agenda that people voted for.

I would have thought most people voted for the agenda to be delivered by a trustworthy government.

Most people who voted never voted for any Tory agenda.

MayBee70 Mon 07-Feb-22 15:24:35

Javid said on breakfast tv that a line had been drawn under Johnson’s comment about Keir Starmer. That’s what he thinks. I won’t be satisfied until Johnson publicly admits that he lied in an attempt to discredit Starmer.

Greta Mon 07-Feb-22 14:48:24

I watched the House of Lord debate from 31 January on the Sue Gray initial report and was surprised just how damning of Boris Johnson the peers' contributions were. The Leader of the House, Baroness Evans looked very uncomfortable and just kept repeating the same old excuses, i.e. the PM has apologised, he does understand that people are upset but now the government must focus on delivering on the agenda that people voted for.

I would have thought most people voted for the agenda to be delivered by a trustworthy government.

Urmstongran Sat 05-Feb-22 15:24:48

I only use GN. That’s enough for me.

Ailidh Sat 05-Feb-22 14:42:34

MissAdventure

Yes, they are planning to amalgamate twitter and Facebook.
It'll be called 'twitface'.

?????Post of the week!

Farzanah Sat 05-Feb-22 14:37:40

grin MissA

MissAdventure Sat 05-Feb-22 13:36:43

Yes, they are planning to amalgamate twitter and Facebook.
It'll be called 'twitface'.

MaizieD Sat 05-Feb-22 13:34:33

Urmstongran

I don’t use toxic Twitter or Facebook. ?
Never have.

Other media are available, Ug.

Urmstongran Sat 05-Feb-22 13:29:15

I don’t use toxic Twitter or Facebook. ?
Never have.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 05-Feb-22 12:57:20

MaizieD

^Apologies if it's only me interested in this or if I'm the only one who doesn't know the answers.^

No it's not just you. I noted the same thing on this thread earlier this morning at 9.03 and posted a link to a twitter post saying much the same thing.

I think that you're right about the 'distribution' network. On twitter it's very noticeable that it often comes from troll farms (I may be deleted for saying that) because the wording is always similar or identical.

No I’m sure you are right.

We see it time and time again.

It has grown over the years, and really got into its stride during the Brexit campaign.

I can remember some particularly unpleasant and downright dangerous stuff, that only loosely related to the Brexit argument but was both racist and factually incorrect. It was taken up and proselytised by unthinking Brexit supporters, who one would have thought knew better.

MaizieD Sat 05-Feb-22 11:46:35

Apologies if it's only me interested in this or if I'm the only one who doesn't know the answers.

No it's not just you. I noted the same thing on this thread earlier this morning at 9.03 and posted a link to a twitter post saying much the same thing.

I think that you're right about the 'distribution' network. On twitter it's very noticeable that it often comes from troll farms (I may be deleted for saying that) because the wording is always similar or identical.

Coastpath Sat 05-Feb-22 11:31:55

That post on Gransnet yesterday seemed to fall from nowhere and was delivered with such conviction.

All of a sudden here is the 'new theory' - people are fed up with Johnson not because of parties or Brexit, but because of net zero.

Does someone sit in an office making up this rubbish? If so, how do they manage to distribute this information to a select group of people who swallow it whole and parrot it in spite of all facts and evidence pointing it out to be a lie?

It is always the same people who are the parrot. Do they not thing, hmmm, the last time I spouted that nonsense from that source I was the only one and I felt a bit of a fool? Why do they always present the information as thought is was the view of the majority? Who are they?

Apologies if it's only me interested in this or if I'm the only one who doesn't know the answers.

MayBee70 Sat 05-Feb-22 10:46:18

MaizieD

25Avalon

They might be angry about that as well but not instead of.

I'm not angry about him abandoning Brexit. I wish he'd done it 6 years ago... Nor are my friends. Are we not 'British public'? ?

He’s probably abandoning it because of all the problems that are impossible to resolve plus the fact he’s bored with it now. His attention span being very short.

MayBee70 Sat 05-Feb-22 10:42:29

MaizieD

I wondered where one of our right wing poster's little rant about 'Eco loons' yesterday came from. She was trying out the new party line for size.

So, here it is, and don't forget you heard it first on Gnet ?
Nothing to do with nonstop partying during lockdown...

Ex-Tory MP Sir Gerald Howarth claims the public are angry with Boris Johnson because he 'abandoned' Brexit for an 'obsession with net carbon'.

mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1489864105309753349

Are these people safe to be let out on their own? How do they manage to achieve this level of deluded lunacy?

Is that the Boris Johnson who flew to the other side of the country in a private jet to do another photo shoot in a hard hat and fluorescent jacket when he could have taken the train. Or, better still, stayed at Downing Street and done some work.

westendgirl Sat 05-Feb-22 10:06:43

May bee70, I had a similar letter too.
I must say i did not really expect such a speedy reply .
Says a lot really about the Speaker's office.

MaizieD Sat 05-Feb-22 09:29:44

25Avalon

They might be angry about that as well but not instead of.

I'm not angry about him abandoning Brexit. I wish he'd done it 6 years ago... Nor are my friends. Are we not 'British public'? ?

25Avalon Sat 05-Feb-22 09:26:18

They might be angry about that as well but not instead of.

MaizieD Sat 05-Feb-22 09:03:50

I wondered where one of our right wing poster's little rant about 'Eco loons' yesterday came from. She was trying out the new party line for size.

So, here it is, and don't forget you heard it first on Gnet ?
Nothing to do with nonstop partying during lockdown...

Ex-Tory MP Sir Gerald Howarth claims the public are angry with Boris Johnson because he 'abandoned' Brexit for an 'obsession with net carbon'.

mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1489864105309753349

Are these people safe to be let out on their own? How do they manage to achieve this level of deluded lunacy?

Whitewavemark2 Sat 05-Feb-22 07:37:40

It is being spun that this is the “clear out” that was promised by Johnson but if the resignations had been planned, the roles left vacant raised further questions – where were the names of those coming in to replace them?

By Friday afternoon, no new principal private secretary, chief of staff or director of communications had been announced.

I suspect Johnson will have huge difficulties replacing them. People are learning that everyone whom Johnson touches gets destroyed, on the alter of Johnson’s vanity.

Lucca Sat 05-Feb-22 06:27:08

MayBee70 Sat 05-Feb-22 00:08:32

Anyone else as amused as I am that one of the photos likely to bring about Johnson’s downfall was taken by the photographer that we taxpayers are having to fork out £50,000 a year for. Yet another one of Johnson’s vanity projects. Hubris.

MayBee70 Fri 04-Feb-22 23:54:25

Petera

*Reply from the Speaker:*

Mr Speaker asked me to thank you for your email and to respond on his behalf.

Mr Speaker has asked me to explain that he is not responsible for Members’ contributions and would not seek to intervene unless something is said that is, in parliamentary terms, disorderly.

Nothing occurred on Monday that was, in technical terms, disorderly. That being said, Mr Speaker feels that allegations such as these should not be made lightly - especially in view of the guidance in Erskine May – the definitive guide to parliamentary procedure – about good temper and moderation being the characteristics of parliamentary debate.

Mr Speaker was far from satisfied that these comments were appropriate or helpful on this occasion, even if they did not fall outside the rules. He would like to see more compassionate and reasonable politics in the House of Commons, and these sorts of comments only enflame opinions and create discord.

However, it is not for the Chair to adjudicate on the accuracy or veracity of Members’ contributions, so long as the contents of their words remain orderly. Mr Speaker can only operate within the powers afforded to him by the House and it would not be appropriate for him to play the role of fact checker during, or subsequent to, debates.

If a Member feels that a Minister has been deliberately misleading, as opposed to inadvertently mistaken, they could table a substantive motion criticising the conduct of that Minister and seek to initiate debates on the detail of the Government policy in question, as well as tabling questions to pursue statements made at the dispatch box.

Members are not otherwise allowed to accuse each other of lying unless debating a substantive motion directly addressing the point. Erskine May says that this is to “preserve the character of parliamentary debate” and that “expressions when used in respect of other Members which are regarded with particular seriousness, generally leading to prompt intervention from the Chair and often a requirement on the Member to withdraw the words, include the imputation of false or unavowed motives; the misrepresentation of the language of another and the accusation of misrepresentation; and charges of uttering a deliberate falsehood.” (paragraph 21.24)

The Speaker takes all comments from members of the public very seriously and would like to reassure you that one of his principal concerns is to ensure that the highest standards of debate are maintained in the House of Commons. He always does his utmost to encourage Members to conduct themselves in a dignified and productive manner in the Chamber, and to remind them of the views of the public on this matter. He is aware that there is much to be done in this regard and will continue to press for improvements.

I hope that the above information is helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write and please accept our best wishes.

Kind regards,

Josh Ryder
Assistant to the Speaker’s Secretary

I received the same reply today but it was signed by a different person. Methinks the message has got through.

MaizieD Fri 04-Feb-22 23:23:16

Johnson has backed down on the Saville slur, admitting that Keir Starmer was not personally responsible for any decisions taken not to prosecute the horrific Jimmy Saville!

He only sort of backed down,*CvD66*. He still said that Starmer was over all responsible for the CPS. As though he was meant to scrutinise every one of the decisions made by the staff of the CPS; some 90,000 decisions a year wasn't it?

I think he was trying to position himself as being no more responsible for the parties than Starmer was for the decisions of CPS lawyers.. Didn't the appalling haunted toothbrush say, in the House of Commons, that what was sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander? That's the line they're going for...

Pammie1 Fri 04-Feb-22 21:43:28

CvD66

Johnson has backed down on the Saville slur, admitting that Keir Starmer was not personally responsible for any decisions taken not to prosecute the horrific Jimmy Saville! It is good to see the pressure from appalled Tories has an impact. Will he now have the courtesy to say this in the House of Commons? It has had the impact he wanted - and created a lot of doubt in people's minds! Well done Daily Mail - not!

I don’t think he will - hasn’t apologised to Starmer either. Wasn’t that one of the reasons Munira Mirza gave for her resignation ?

25Avalon Fri 04-Feb-22 09:29:53

Three of them were involved in party gate and were probably going to go anyway. The most worrying one for Boris Johnson is or should be Munira Mirza.