The Ukraine issue isn’t that straightforward. My Ukrainian friend says over 40 % of Ukrainians are actually Russian. Makes things seem a bit different somehow. Why is the uk and USA involved ?
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Furious with the Tories...
(64 Posts)is anyone else as cross with this gov't as me? Not only has Johnson broken his own rules he has lied repeatedly in Parliament, lied on the side of a bus telling us the NHS would be much better funded if we voted leave, we would still have free trade with the eu if we left and none of our rights would be eroded, what we've actually got is national insurance being put up to fund the nhs, problematic trade with the eu, an NHS which is being privatised and soon a law which will enable tories to reduce working conditions laws etc so employers won't have to pay sick pay etc. All the Tories, not just Johnson have been complicit in this & I am furious & all I see is low taxes for the rich, ever decreasing NHS, pensions, welfare benefits etc. & I feel cheated all round. Is it just me?
Our GDP is growing because it fell much more spectacularly than other countries, so is coming from a low base , we also have the highest death toll, most polluted rivers, lowest pensions etc etc in Europe - don’t hear BJ bogging on about that. What I really hate about this current bunch of shysters is the constant assertion that “the public aren’t interested in this - we are getting on with the peoples priorities” - I want to shout - “Don’t you tell me what I am interested in or what my priorities are, I AM interested in your bloody lies and corruption and one of my priorities is seeing the back of you lot.”
If there are "decent Tory politicians" then now is the time for them to prove that they are by kicking Johnson out immediately.
Kali2
She has sent him much further than Coventry- to Ukraine!
And I'll repeat, other NATO countries are truly worried that this bull in a China shop, in so much trouble at home and totally distrusted- is today in Ukraine WITHOUT any mandate from NATO, and putting everyone at huge risk if he shouts his stupid mouth off. Dangerous in the extreme.
He’s offered 88million in aid, while at home there are food banks and rising fuel costs.
She has sent him much further than Coventry- to Ukraine!
And I'll repeat, other NATO countries are truly worried that this bull in a China shop, in so much trouble at home and totally distrusted- is today in Ukraine WITHOUT any mandate from NATO, and putting everyone at huge risk if he shouts his stupid mouth off. Dangerous in the extreme.
Yes, I am annoyed too and getting more annoyed by the day. The Saville quip! Does anyone remember that Mrs Thatcher invited him for Christmas several times at Chequers? He received a knighthood… why was Ian Blackford kicked out of the Commons yesterday for accusing Johnson of lying when Johnson himself lied through his teeth about Kier Starmer? Unbelievable. And then, I think it was Raab, sticking up for him this morning. Nearly as bad was an obviously ‘refreshed’ Nadine Dories defending him on Channel 4 news last night, I don’t usually defend any Tory, but Ruth Davison, also on Channel 4 News was upset to the point of tears. Any Tory MP who defends this absolute nightmare of a PM will surely lose all credibility. Finally, I wonder what Carrie is whispering in Johnson’s ear these days?
Germanshepherdsmum
Not wanting to excuse him in the slightest, but there was that small matter of the pandemic ...
We all had teh Pandemic, and we followed the rules and did NOT Party. Relevance???
Did they not have the pandemic in those other countries then GSM?
Not wanting to excuse him in the slightest, but there was that small matter of the pandemic ...
Oh I know, some will say 'it is just JOB whinging again' -
but he is so so spot on. And the Press is unanymous- and the whole world is laughing, TV, Press, cartoonists are having a field day- and it is not really Johnson that is being laughed at, it is the whole Nation- what used to be so respected as Great Britain.
fb.watch/aVdmyJxJ5p/
Maizie D: Amid all your gloom, it is amazing that 'Gross domestic product (GDP) is estimated to have grown by 0.9% in November 2021 and is above its pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic level (February 2020) for the first time, by 0.7%.
How does that compare to other countries Cunco?
Because if we went up by 0.9%, and they all went up by 2%, that's not quite so good, is it?
Maizie D: Amid all your gloom, it is amazing that 'Gross domestic product (GDP) is estimated to have grown by 0.9% in November 2021 and is above its pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic level (February 2020) for the first time, by 0.7%.'
It seems that our population has not fallen since Brexit but, of course, we have had the small matter of the pandemic to contend with.
As for being boiled frogs, I wouldn't presume to judge but Brexit was never going to be seamless and, despite the stereotype, many Brexiteers did not see the going easy after Brexit. It is undeniable that the pandemic has made the headwind all the harder but, nevertheless, GDP and employment has recovered and unemployment is now falling. Inflation is a major issue but can hardly be attributed to Brexit - unless Brexit had worldwide inflationary consequences!
Re bj and his broken promises, whatever happened to the 40 new hospitals, 45,000 new doctors and 30,000 new nurses.
Not forgetting the bus advertising an extra £350,000,000 for the nhs.
I am sure I have missed a few, but it won’t matter because promises can and are broken.
Good post Dickens.
Anyone got Nadine Dorries as their MP- oh poor you.
twitter.com/i/status/1488289749752291331
Beckett
Ah - there it is - the daily anti-Tory thread!
... and, I suspect, had we a Labour government - you'd find the same 'anti' thread. Or even a Lib Dem one, come to that.
Why shouldn't the electorate hold their governments to account? If you vote for a party that makes certain promises, insists that they are going to do this, that and the other - and then renege on those promises, do you think it's wrong to be critical? And if so, why?
We have a government currently led by a man who has a track record of making promises he doesn't keep. As Mayor of London, he pledged to end rough sleeping by 2012. By 2010 the number of homeless people had doubled.
He claimed he would strengthen the Met Police by recruiting 5000 constables over three years. The Met had the equivalent of 33,404 full-time police officers (not including PCSOs or special constables) in November 2009. Which fell to 32,125 officers on March 31, 2016, shortly before he left office.
In 2008, he campaigned against Ken Livingstone's plans to close a number of ticket offices on the London Underground - signing a pledge never to close them. He closed all of them.
He has been sacked twice for lying. He has lied to Parliament and the voters. He deflects criticism by changing the subject, or attacking his opponents with unrelated matters. He made a jibe at Starmer about Jimmy Savile - an accusation that even members of his own government thought appalling - those selected 'yes' men who were chosen because they wouldn't oppose him.
... and you're annoyed that people have dared to criticise both him and his party?
There are some decent Tories - regardless of which way an individual votes, it is recognised that there are Conservatives with principles and integrity. This is not an attack on them.
We are angry with a party that has chosen an inveterate liar to lead them. And we have every right to be angry, so there will be more 'anti-Tory' threads. It reflects the strength of people's feelings.
You can, of course, always scroll past them. Or create your own pro-Tory thread.
Alegrias1
"Its not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in" isn't a good defence of Brexit. It's up there with "He hasn't robbed a bank".
Must be a Tory thing.
Don't forget the 'it would have been worse under Corbyn' comments along with claims that everyone always understood that it would take 40 years for Brexit benefits, if any, to materialise.
I agree, Kim. There are also some decent tory principles. Trouble is that as we know the rising tide doesn't lift all boats and tory policies disregard this.
Decent tories should refuse to be silent onlookers either at the excessive individual greed of those at the top of the tree or at the worsening poverty of those at the bottom.
They can show their distaste by not voting for tory candidates until the party reforms itself (and that need not entail voting for anyone else).
Now things have come to these straits, decent tories who do nothing at all are tacitly accepting the values of the current tory leadership..
I think 'decent' Tories would\should already be out of the woodwork.
so true MaizieD I loathe having a cheat and a charlatan in office, I've seen the poor be victimised and the rich excessively rewarded, the election was won on misinformation and really should be held again. Yes the gov't have spent a lot on the NHS because they use expensive private companies to provide services not because the services are better
Alegrias1
"Its not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in" isn't a good defence of Brexit. It's up there with "He hasn't robbed a bank".
Must be a Tory thing.
???
midgey
I am very angry with Mr Johnson but getting cross with the opposition parties…why aren’t they using the golden opportunity to tell us what they stand for?
I think Keir Starmers speech in HOC yesterday spoke volumes as to what he’s about. He called Boris out on everything and the only thing our PM could do in reply was throw accusations about Jimmy Saville. Bring on the next election.
I have tried to debate Brexit over many years on GN but, sadly, it invariably ends up with me being insulted and the issues dodged. To judge Brexit after two years of pandemic is just too unreasonable to contemplate.
The problem is, Cunco that what has happened, shortage of labour to harvest fruit and veg, shortage of vets and meat processing staff leading to, for example, thousands of healthy pigs being culled (and it's still going on), 15 mile queues of lorries at Dover, loss of business and jobs for the finance industry, destruction of the fishing industry, trade deals to allow hormone fed beef into the UK, closure of small businesses which traded with the EU, masses of extra cost and paperwork for exporters, etc. aren't bugs, they are features. Can't be alleviated without closer alignment to the EU.
No immediate disaster, just being boiled frogs...
Germanshepherdsmum
Don’t tar everyone with the same brush. There are decent Tory politicians and we will I hope see them coming out of the woodwork when Johnson goes.
When Johnson goes, pray that Sunak doesn’t take over because ‘small state’ will be the mantra. If you’re old, sick or disabled you’ll be blamed for all the worlds ills as an excuse to reign in welfare benefits of any kind and public services will shrink beyond recognition.
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