Furious with the Tories...

Don’t tar everyone with the same brush. There are decent Tory politicians and we will I hope see them coming out of the woodwork when Johnson goes.

Yes, spabbygirl, I too am furious with the Tories, although sadly, not as surprised as I should be by the behaviour of those who are responsible for all that you list.

It's all very well saying that there are some decent Tories in the woodwork, Germanshepherdsmum, but why are they still lurking and why haven't more of them spoken out before it's got to this stage and we have become an international laughing stock?

No not really have enough issues in family life to waste energy getting furious about something that in this moment I have no control over

If you care to read almost any of the political threads on GN, you will see that you are not alone in working up a frenzy over the government. As you probably know, there is a band of folks exhibiting similar fury.

I am not sure you can say that the NHS has been underfunded during the pandemic. You could recognise that the pandemic has dominated everything since the Conservatives won its landslide victory and marginalised the rest, as well as creating an enormous funding issue. I suspect you did not believe much of what was said at the Referendum; and you would not be alone in that belief. The test of Brexit is, though, still to come post-pandemic. What I would observe is that, despite the pandemic, the some of the disasters suggested by Remain have yet to occur.

What I would observe is that, despite the pandemic, the some of the disasters suggested by Remain have yet to occur.
True, and heaven help us when they do.

"Its not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in" isn't a good defence of Brexit. It's up there with "He hasn't robbed a bank".

Must be a Tory thing.

Ah - there it is - the daily anti-Tory thread!

Beckett

Ah - there it is - the daily anti-Tory thread!

Yes, unfortunately they're not rare.

Wonder why that is?

I wonder if it is 'cancel culture' to invent something I didn't say and then denounce it. It's certainly not unusual on GN.

I agree that 'it's not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in' isn't a good defence of Brexit. I simply observe that among the lies and false predictions at the time of the Referendum, some were made by Remain. For example, the stock market was supposed to collapse and when I last looked, it hadn't.

The partizan side-swipe about the nasty Tories and, presumably, the pure and blameless opposition is also wide of the mark. I have never counted myself as a fan of Boris Johnson and when I have voted for him or his party, it has been because the alternative was judged much worse. If that is taken as a reflection of disillusion with politicians and party politics, you would be right.

I have tried to debate Brexit over many years on GN but, sadly, it invariably ends up with me being insulted and the issues dodged. To judge Brexit after two years of pandemic is just too unreasonable to contemplate.

I am very angry with Mr Johnson but getting cross with the opposition parties…why aren’t they using the golden opportunity to tell us what they stand for?

There's something I've learned since coming on GN a few months ago.

If you deviate in any way from what a person has said, even an additional comma, someone will jump and and say "I didn't say that! You're putting words in my mouth Unfair, unfair!!""

Sometimes I write "I'm paraphrasing". Sometimes its so obvious I don't bother, but people still get very defensive.

Ach well.

Alegrias1: If you misrepresent somebody's view, it is not surprising that they put you right. It is not defensive to correct a misrepresentation of the truth.

It makes it worse when the misrepresentation is accompanied by a negative stereotype.

Germanshepherdsmum

Don’t tar everyone with the same brush. There are decent Tory politicians and we will I hope see them coming out of the woodwork when Johnson goes.

When Johnson goes, pray that Sunak doesn’t take over because ‘small state’ will be the mantra. If you’re old, sick or disabled you’ll be blamed for all the worlds ills as an excuse to reign in welfare benefits of any kind and public services will shrink beyond recognition.

I have tried to debate Brexit over many years on GN but, sadly, it invariably ends up with me being insulted and the issues dodged. To judge Brexit after two years of pandemic is just too unreasonable to contemplate.

The problem is, Cunco that what has happened, shortage of labour to harvest fruit and veg, shortage of vets and meat processing staff leading to, for example, thousands of healthy pigs being culled (and it's still going on), 15 mile queues of lorries at Dover, loss of business and jobs for the finance industry, destruction of the fishing industry, trade deals to allow hormone fed beef into the UK, closure of small businesses which traded with the EU, masses of extra cost and paperwork for exporters, etc. aren't bugs, they are features. Can't be alleviated without closer alignment to the EU.

No immediate disaster, just being boiled frogs...

midgey

I am very angry with Mr Johnson but getting cross with the opposition parties…why aren’t they using the golden opportunity to tell us what they stand for?

I think Keir Starmers speech in HOC yesterday spoke volumes as to what he’s about. He called Boris out on everything and the only thing our PM could do in reply was throw accusations about Jimmy Saville. Bring on the next election.

Alegrias1

"Its not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in" isn't a good defence of Brexit. It's up there with "He hasn't robbed a bank".

Must be a Tory thing.

???

so true MaizieD I loathe having a cheat and a charlatan in office, I've seen the poor be victimised and the rich excessively rewarded, the election was won on misinformation and really should be held again. Yes the gov't have spent a lot on the NHS because they use expensive private companies to provide services not because the services are better

I think 'decent' Tories would\should already be out of the woodwork.

I agree, Kim. There are also some decent tory principles. Trouble is that as we know the rising tide doesn't lift all boats and tory policies disregard this.

Decent tories should refuse to be silent onlookers either at the excessive individual greed of those at the top of the tree or at the worsening poverty of those at the bottom.

They can show their distaste by not voting for tory candidates until the party reforms itself (and that need not entail voting for anyone else).

Now things have come to these straits, decent tories who do nothing at all are tacitly accepting the values of the current tory leadership..

Alegrias1

"Its not so bad, the roof hasn't fallen in" isn't a good defence of Brexit. It's up there with "He hasn't robbed a bank".

Must be a Tory thing.

Don't forget the 'it would have been worse under Corbyn' comments along with claims that everyone always understood that it would take 40 years for Brexit benefits, if any, to materialise.

Beckett

Ah - there it is - the daily anti-Tory thread!

... and, I suspect, had we a Labour government - you'd find the same 'anti' thread. Or even a Lib Dem one, come to that.

Why shouldn't the electorate hold their governments to account? If you vote for a party that makes certain promises, insists that they are going to do this, that and the other - and then renege on those promises, do you think it's wrong to be critical? And if so, why?

We have a government currently led by a man who has a track record of making promises he doesn't keep. As Mayor of London, he pledged to end rough sleeping by 2012. By 2010 the number of homeless people had doubled.

He claimed he would strengthen the Met Police by recruiting 5000 constables over three years. The Met had the equivalent of 33,404 full-time police officers (not including PCSOs or special constables) in November 2009. Which fell to 32,125 officers on March 31, 2016, shortly before he left office.

In 2008, he campaigned against Ken Livingstone's plans to close a number of ticket offices on the London Underground - signing a pledge never to close them. He closed all of them.

He has been sacked twice for lying. He has lied to Parliament and the voters. He deflects criticism by changing the subject, or attacking his opponents with unrelated matters. He made a jibe at Starmer about Jimmy Savile - an accusation that even members of his own government thought appalling - those selected 'yes' men who were chosen because they wouldn't oppose him.

... and you're annoyed that people have dared to criticise both him and his party?

There are some decent Tories - regardless of which way an individual votes, it is recognised that there are Conservatives with principles and integrity. This is not an attack on them.

We are angry with a party that has chosen an inveterate liar to lead them. And we have every right to be angry, so there will be more 'anti-Tory' threads. It reflects the strength of people's feelings.

You can, of course, always scroll past them. Or create your own pro-Tory thread.

Anyone got Nadine Dorries as their MP- oh poor you.

twitter.com/i/status/1488289749752291331

Good post Dickens.

Re bj and his broken promises, whatever happened to the 40 new hospitals, 45,000 new doctors and 30,000 new nurses.
Not forgetting the bus advertising an extra £350,000,000 for the nhs.
I am sure I have missed a few, but it won’t matter because promises can and are broken.