Furious with the Tories...

Luckylegs

But the rest of them aren’t brilliant, either! Nadine Dorries is an embarrassment, she needs to be kept well away from interviews, she’s either drunk or on drugs, swaying about, spouting nonsense! I don’t trust Rishi Sunak either. Michael Gove is untrustworthy and useless. Who is there who would make a good honest replacement for Boris?

A different party perhaps?

Kali2

Is it true JRM has put his letter in- or is it a 'joke' on the internet.

'Jacob Rees Mogg has put his letter in to the 1822 Committee'

Joke, I think Kali2 ?

Seems to be getting some stick for the revived story about the fact that, as an anti-abortion RC, he has investments in a company that produces the 'morning after' pill.

Is it true JRM has put his letter in- or is it a 'joke' on the internet.

But the rest of them aren’t brilliant, either! Nadine Dorries is an embarrassment, she needs to be kept well away from interviews, she’s either drunk or on drugs, swaying about, spouting nonsense! I don’t trust Rishi Sunak either. Michael Gove is untrustworthy and useless. Who is there who would make a good honest replacement for Boris?

I don’t trust politicians of any colour ?

I look at this way, if there is a punch up in Eastern Europe, Partygate is going to look like a storm in a tea cup ?

We have a GE come 2024, now that is going to be interesting

Why on earth would anyone vote for a corrupt and incompetent party, whoever they chose as leader?

Because the party is more than their leader. Don't we all vote on the basis of basic beliefs? If the current leader is useless like Johnson, the only options are to vote for another party - which may have beliefs contary to ours - or don't vote. Another reason for a PR system.

I'm no Tory btw, but I have some sympathy with those who are, even though they must have known what they were getting.

Why on earth would anyone vote for a corrupt and incompetent party, whoever they chose as leader?

I'll continue to vote for them if Johnson is replaced by someone with integrity.

And me. Never again will I vote for them but who else to vote for?

You can add me to the disgusted Tory supporters Gill.

I agree Dickens, I know many Tory voters who are disgusted by what is going on, and are probably even more affected by it than I am because they believe in Tory principles, something which Johnson and his cohorts, especially Sunak, have shown they do not. Not all Tories as ERG, not all Labour are Corbynites.

GillT57

Yes well said Dickens. You expressed my feelings more eloquently and politely than I would have been able to. I get exasperated by ignorant and sweeping assumptions that those of us repelled by Johnson's lies and behaviour are automatically supporters of Corbyn and/or Blair.

Conversely, of course, not all Tory supporters are pro Johnson. They see him as a gaffe-prone, over-ambitious, manipulative individual with no integrity, a man who is damaging the reputation of their party.

As the Left is not a homogenous group - I really don't understand why people assume that any criticism of Johnson is axiomatic with being a Corbynite. I liked some of his manifesto pledges - I mean, can you really argue with "for the many not the few" in principle? And I thought his treatment at the hands of the right wing media was absolutely appalling, and those who complain that the Left will use any means to get rid of 'Boris' should step back and look at the methods used to discredit Corbyn. But for various reasons, I did not vote for him.

I am absolutely in favour of getting rid of Johnson, by any means - but not 'foul' means. And I believe 'partygate' is important, as is the previous 'sleaze' within the party - not so much because these things happened, but because of the way the allegations were handled by Johnson and his party. Their dismissive attitude towards breaches of the ministerial code, the way they told us to "move on" etc. Johnson did listen to the electorate afterwards (as he said he had) and decided that the best way to deal with the situation was to sling mud at his opponents... a good dose of "whataboutery". The allegations against Starmer - I bet he would never make them outside of the 'parliamentary privilege' that allows him to speculate. He knows damned well he can get away with it due to the protection this privilege offers. This is the man who dismissed the efforts to investigate historical child abuse by the police as a "waste" of money which would be "spaffed up against the wall". That's how much he cares about the victims of such abuse. IMO he is beneath contempt and I don't feel the need to apologise for wanting him gone.

TBH, I don't much care about the broken pledge on the triple-lock, on a personal level - didn't believe it anyway. But it will matter to millions of pensioners who are reliant on it.

Yes well said Dickens. You expressed my feelings more eloquently and politely than I would have been able to. I get exasperated by ignorant and sweeping assumptions that those of us repelled by Johnson's lies and behaviour are automatically supporters of Corbyn and/or Blair.

Dickens Thanks for the above.

Some people just don't understand the level of animosity/anger with Johnson and the Tories.

Allsorts

I do think these forums are all biased to Labour, it’s not about balanced argument. I think whatever way they can they want to
get rid of Boris, by whatever means. It seems they see no fault at all in Labour, proved by those supporting Corbyn, also Blair.
Boris is a joke in lots of ways, however he gets things done and got the votes and won’t do another term anyway.

These forums are not required to have equal numbers of Labour and Tory supporters - so if you think there's more Labour than Tory posters it is because either there's more support for Labour - or Tory posters aren't interested in the arguments.

Also, why assume Labour supporters are Corbynites? I'm not and I know others who aren't - on here and elsewhere. And Blair is equally unpopular with quite a few Labour supporters - including me.

Of course some of us want to get rid of 'Boris' - for the reasons many have stated. If you believe a party and its leader lack integrity, honour - if you're angered by broken promises and lies - why would you not want to get rid of it and him?

Did anyone bother about Corbyn getting well and truly trashed by the media - they, and the people they represent wanted to make sure he didn't get anywhere near the reins of power. His opponents - including Starmer - wanted rid of him on the political landscape "by whatever means". That's how politics work in our antiquated, two-party, adversarial system. Each party scores political points over the other.

Boris is not a God, he's not a President - he has no automatic right to lead, all Prime Ministers are accountable to us - the taxpayer, whichever party they represent.

"He gets things done" He signed a rushed-through Brexit Deal, a major constitutional change to our whole way of life which, even he knows, will take decades to bed-in. Brexit is far from "done". He makes decisions - the vaccination programme was his best - but he doesn't actually do the work involved. He also doesn't get things done - remember his pledge to pensioners not to break the triple-lock... I won't mention the others...

This thread isn’t about Labour and “finding fault” with them though is it allsorts ? you can start another thread on that if you want. Why assume that those who criticise this current shower are Labour supporters ? Some of the critics actually voted tory.

Not everyone who is totally anti-Tory is a Labour voter/supporter, Allsorts. Other parties are available. In this constituency, for example, there is no point in voting Labour as they will never get in. Might explain why we have had SNP and Lib Dem MPs as they are the only ones who have a chance of beating the Tories.

I do think these forums are all biased to Labour, it’s not about balanced argument. I think whatever way they can they want to
get rid of Boris, by whatever means. It seems they see no fault at all in Labour, proved by those supporting Corbyn, also Blair.
Boris is a joke in lots of ways, however he gets things done and got the votes and won’t do another term anyway.

Johnson actually told his audience that the UK was leading the
opposition to Russia over Ukraine. I cringed when I heard him.

midgey

I am very angry with Mr Johnson but getting cross with the opposition parties…why aren’t they using the golden opportunity to tell us what they stand for?

There are rules for the management of PMQs to which I assume you're referring. Witness:

The Speaker usually calls the Leaders of the two main Opposition parties to ask supplementary questions at Prime Minister’s questions. The Leader of the official Opposition usually asks six questions, and the leader of the third largest party two questions. They do not have to table questions in advance.

The Opposition are regularly featured in other programmes and in the print media should you wish to learn more.

vegansrock

Our GDP is growing because it fell much more spectacularly than other countries, so is coming from a low base , we also have the highest death toll, most polluted rivers, lowest pensions etc etc in Europe - don’t hear BJ bogging on about that. What I really hate about this current bunch of shysters is the constant assertion that “the public aren’t interested in this - we are getting on with the peoples priorities” - I want to shout - “Don’t you tell me what I am interested in or what my priorities are, I AM interested in your bloody lies and corruption and one of my priorities is seeing the back of you lot.”

What I really hate about this current bunch of shysters is the constant assertion that “the public aren’t interested in this - we are getting on with the peoples priorities”

That bugs me too. Remember Gove's "I think the British people have had enough of experts..."

The arrogance! It's simply a way of excusing and exonerating themselves - this pious reference to "the people" doesn't wash with everyone but unfortunately there are too many with whom it does. Goodness knows why integrity, decency and honourable behaviour doesn't matter to them but obviously, it's not that important. I suppose if a government gives you what you want - and has contempt for the same people you do, so to speak, they'll be excused virtually anything.

Veganrock I agree. The “the public aren’t interested in this - we are getting on with the peoples priorities” stuff is ridiculous.

One of the most frustrating moments in a sea of frustrating moments in parliament on Monday was the MP saying (and I paraphrase here) 'When I talk to people about the parties they say to me, we're not worried about that, just get back on with stopping the little boats arriving.' God alive.

What?

It's not years ago, it's now. If the Ukrainians need our help, we help them.

I'm not naive enough to think it's all done from altruism, but it's not something to be ignored because it's not our problem.

But the British have done that sort of thing for years. Maybe not so much recently . I am surprised someone from Scotland would say that. It is not their business. Where were they when China invaded Tibet?

17% of Ukrainians are ethnically Russian. Makes not a blind bit of difference. Russia doesn't get to threaten to walk in to anybody else's country, any more than we would.