Huge rise on Energy bills

I’m afraid it’s time to bring back the liberty bodice.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon21

And yet (bracing myself) is it time to respect energy more?

Kali2 there was an older person on the news this evening who said she is worried about turning on her electric fire because of the cost.
However, I noticed that although she was wearing a long-sleeved top, she had no cardigan on. It was a thin one, the kind I'd wear come April if the weather is warmer, perhaps with a gilet.

Do you know what she was wearing under her jumper?

It wasn't a jumper, it was a thin top.
No, she didn't pull it up!

There is a happy medium, no-one wants to go back to the days of ice on the insides of windows but some people do expect to wear t shirts indoors in the winter rather than turn the heating down a degree or two.

Exactly!

Happy Medium- common sense. And no, I never said it is just the young either.

It isn't just the young anyway.

My elderly mum won't wear more than two layers (and one layer on her legs).
She isn't wealthy, but will turn the heating up rather than consider wearing more clothes or using a blanket while sitting around.

My DH is exactlythe same. Our house is heated to 21°. He sits there in shirt (often short-sleeved) and jumper, plus jeans, complaining he is cold.

growstuff

Callistemon21

And yet (bracing myself) is it time to respect energy more?

Kali2 there was an older person on the news this evening who said she is worried about turning on her electric fire because of the cost.
However, I noticed that although she was wearing a long-sleeved top, she had no cardigan on. It was a thin one, the kind I'd wear come April if the weather is warmer, perhaps with a gilet.

Do you know what she was wearing under her jumper?

It wasn't a jumper, it was a thin top.
No, she didn't pull it up!

There is a happy medium, no-one wants to go back to the days of ice on the insides of windows but some people do expect to wear t shirts indoors in the winter rather than turn the heating down a degree or two.

In my last house the old man who lived opposite me used to walk around in his hot as Hades house with his shirt off every single day of the year. He had big windows and was a very big, hairy fellow. I wish he'd worn a vest.

I bet there aren't many youngsters who wear vests {grin]

Kali2

Dickens

growstuff

I really cringe when "young people" are talked about like this.

My son, a student, lives in a small attic flat in Newcastle. He wears many layers indoors and fingerless gloves when he's typing out his work. He told me last weekend that he had to turn his heating on for the first time this year because he couldn't cope with the cold any more.

Yes, this "young people today" schtick gets a bit tedious.

Wearing a warm jumper indoors is one thing, but no-one should have to go around swathed in layers of clothes, gloves and thick socks that don't even fit in your shoes or sit with a blanket round them in this day and age.
Being cold is miserable - especially if you are working at a desk. It dulls the mind, lowers your mood and is fatiguing as the body tries to keep its core temperature.
I'm all for being sensible with central heating, but not being able to warm your room / home because it's too expensive is not something we should resign ourselves to.

A pity some read my posts as a criticism of the 'youth of today'- it was not. But the fact is, young people of today have not ever, mostly, had to live in a cold house, having to wear layers and so much more. And I didn't say all, but 'mainly'.

All the lovely young people I know tend to wear very little year round, and to have the thermostat turned on high. This is not a criticism, it is saying that they have grown without realising how we have to respect the use of energy much more, and not take it for granted. And young people can maintain and produce heat.

Well, I am afraid we have had to resign ourselves to it, to some extent, and that is ok. There is nothing wrong with putting a vest on, or a warmer jumper and leggings and socks. Not talking about freezing as many of us had to when we were growing up- but just using *common sense*- where have I mentionned being swathed in layers of clothes? Unless elderly or frail, of course.

Kali2

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to the general tone of implied criticism of the young and those - not necessarily on this forum either - who seem to think that because we had to layer up in our icy-cold houses, young people should now do the same.

I agree with you about wanton use of energy - we need more energy efficient buildings / housing, but no-one should have to be cold because they are afraid of their fuel bill.

No one should be bullied. I dont agree that WFA should be means tested, I believe all of at or over pensinable age should get it, but I respect the right for others to disagree.

What's all this windfall tax Why don't labour renationalise

Dickens

growstuff

I really cringe when "young people" are talked about like this.

My son, a student, lives in a small attic flat in Newcastle. He wears many layers indoors and fingerless gloves when he's typing out his work. He told me last weekend that he had to turn his heating on for the first time this year because he couldn't cope with the cold any more.

Yes, this "young people today" schtick gets a bit tedious.

Wearing a warm jumper indoors is one thing, but no-one should have to go around swathed in layers of clothes, gloves and thick socks that don't even fit in your shoes or sit with a blanket round them in this day and age.
Being cold is miserable - especially if you are working at a desk. It dulls the mind, lowers your mood and is fatiguing as the body tries to keep its core temperature.
I'm all for being sensible with central heating, but not being able to warm your room / home because it's too expensive is not something we should resign ourselves to.

A pity some read my posts as a criticism of the 'youth of today'- it was not. But the fact is, young people of today have not ever, mostly, had to live in a cold house, having to wear layers and so much more. And I didn't say all, but 'mainly'.

All the lovely young people I know tend to wear very little year round, and to have the thermostat turned on high. This is not a criticism, it is saying that they have grown without realising how we have to respect the use of energy much more, and not take it for granted. And young people can maintain and produce heat.

Well, I am afraid we have had to resign ourselves to it, to some extent, and that is ok. There is nothing wrong with putting a vest on, or a warmer jumper and leggings and socks. Not talking about freezing as many of us had to when we were growing up- but just using *common sense*- where have I mentionned being swathed in layers of clothes? Unless elderly or frail, of course.

Dickens

growstuff

I really cringe when "young people" are talked about like this.

My son, a student, lives in a small attic flat in Newcastle. He wears many layers indoors and fingerless gloves when he's typing out his work. He told me last weekend that he had to turn his heating on for the first time this year because he couldn't cope with the cold any more.

Yes, this "young people today" schtick gets a bit tedious.

Wearing a warm jumper indoors is one thing, but no-one should have to go around swathed in layers of clothes, gloves and thick socks that don't even fit in your shoes or sit with a blanket round them in this day and age.
Being cold is miserable - especially if you are working at a desk. It dulls the mind, lowers your mood and is fatiguing as the body tries to keep its core temperature.
I'm all for being sensible with central heating, but not being able to warm your room / home because it's too expensive is not something we should resign ourselves to.

Absolutely right

The entire EU is now allowed to cut VAT on energy bills. Spain has already done so. French consumers will pay a maximum increase of 4%. (They haven't flogged off their infrastructure like us).

Here in Tory Brexit Britain people will get loans.

growstuff

I really cringe when "young people" are talked about like this.

My son, a student, lives in a small attic flat in Newcastle. He wears many layers indoors and fingerless gloves when he's typing out his work. He told me last weekend that he had to turn his heating on for the first time this year because he couldn't cope with the cold any more.

Yes, this "young people today" schtick gets a bit tedious.

Wearing a warm jumper indoors is one thing, but no-one should have to go around swathed in layers of clothes, gloves and thick socks that don't even fit in your shoes or sit with a blanket round them in this day and age.
Being cold is miserable - especially if you are working at a desk. It dulls the mind, lowers your mood and is fatiguing as the body tries to keep its core temperature.
I'm all for being sensible with central heating, but not being able to warm your room / home because it's too expensive is not something we should resign ourselves to.

And while we don’t burn our minuscule amount, China are burning theirs on a colossal scale! I think much of this is energy virtue signalling. Agreed to and clapped upon at Cop26. Well now we all have to pay for it.

Urmstongran

The price rise has been caused by the Eco Lunatic Lobby and successive Governments who have refused to use the gas, shale, oil and coal reserves under our feet and in the North Sea and have failed to develop nuclear alternatives.

The backlash from the electorate is going to be monumental.

Make statements like that and then you wonder why you get 'bullied' Ug.

There are better ways of dealing with the energy crisis than releasing the fossil fuels that have massively contributed to global warming.

Kali2

Galaxy

I hate wearing layers, I grew up in a cold house and would rather skimp on food I think than heating.

As said, this is a totally different aspect re heating. I totally agre that this is all going to discriminate terrible against the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

However- I do think that, perhaps especially young people who have never experienced a cold house how I described it before- must learn to respect energy more. Not 'just' due to cost, for for ecological and climate change reasons. We live in a very old house in the mountains, and we have no choice but to wear layers in winter, and add thick socks, blankets, hot water bottles or hot barley bags, etc, and adapt through the seasons. It is not 'natural' in our climates, to want to wear no socks, shorts and thin t-shirts year round. As said, time to become more aware and respect energy more. Turn down heat all round, same for washing machine, less use of dryer, etc, etc.

But this does not apply to the elderly and the infirm, who just cannot retain heat or generate it, and move around more, etc, of course.

I really cringe when "young people" are talked about like this.

My son, a student, lives in a small attic flat in Newcastle. He wears many layers indoors and fingerless gloves when he's typing out his work. He told me last weekend that he had to turn his heating on for the first time this year because he couldn't cope with the cold any more.

Jazzhands

Everyone is talking about Universal Credit, but there are some who are still on so-called legacy benefits - Employment Support Allowance (ESA). They didn't receive the £20 increase because the Government didn't have the administrative mechanism to apply it, so they were refused. This is being contested in Court, still awaiting judgement. I hope they are included in future changes, and not just forgotten about because it's not in the Universal Credit remit.

Ref to ESA legacy who didn't receive uptake of £20 a week.

www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/jsa-esa-claimants-could-extra-22407044

This government yet again fails to help those with disability.

The price rise has been caused by the Eco Lunatic Lobby and successive Governments who have refused to use the gas, shale, oil and coal reserves under our feet and in the North Sea and have failed to develop nuclear alternatives.

The backlash from the electorate is going to be monumental.

Galaxy

I hate wearing layers, I grew up in a cold house and would rather skimp on food I think than heating.

As said, this is a totally different aspect re heating. I totally agre that this is all going to discriminate terrible against the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

However- I do think that, perhaps especially young people who have never experienced a cold house how I described it before- must learn to respect energy more. Not 'just' due to cost, for for ecological and climate change reasons. We live in a very old house in the mountains, and we have no choice but to wear layers in winter, and add thick socks, blankets, hot water bottles or hot barley bags, etc, and adapt through the seasons. It is not 'natural' in our climates, to want to wear no socks, shorts and thin t-shirts year round. As said, time to become more aware and respect energy more. Turn down heat all round, same for washing machine, less use of dryer, etc, etc.

But this does not apply to the elderly and the infirm, who just cannot retain heat or generate it, and move around more, etc, of course.

Warm Home Grants.

This is budget limited and when energy companies run out of budget there are no more grants. It’s not a universal help for all those who fit the criteria.

Everyone is talking about Universal Credit, but there are some who are still on so-called legacy benefits - Employment Support Allowance (ESA). They didn't receive the £20 increase because the Government didn't have the administrative mechanism to apply it, so they were refused. This is being contested in Court, still awaiting judgement. I hope they are included in future changes, and not just forgotten about because it's not in the Universal Credit remit.

Urmstongran

Meanwhile we find out it is costing the taxpayer nearly £5 MILLION a day to house illegal Channel migrants in hotels.

??

"Channel migrants" do not become "illegal" until their claim for asylum has been rejected.

We, in common with other European nations, have signed up to the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, so this money is within our budget year on year, we don't suddenly have to find it from somewhere else and cut back on public spending to finance it.

Do you really think a government whose ideology is free-market, small-state, would spend that money on public services anyway?

Are you equally annoyed at the huge amounts of money that Boris Johnson has spent on private consultants and contractors? Governments used to rely on civil servants to advise on how things work but since the days of Cameron, May and now Johnson they have been largely ostracised, 'let-go', and 'retired'. Boris Johnson paid out around more than £100 million to a private consultant to do his thinking for him - a job normally done by civil servants - those people who spent their entire careers in public service. Some of the contracts handed out as a result of these private consultations were to companies that were unable to honour them, and some were even 'dormant' companies. That was also taxpayers' money.

... and more asylum seekers remain in France than come to the UK therefore France, presumably, spends more than we do on them, yet it will protect its citizens / households from huge energy increases by limiting the bill hikes to 4% this year.

"Illegals" are not the cause of our impoverishment.

Jane43

growstuff

Jane43

M0nica

Being in the fortunate position of being able to pay the higher fuel bills without too much problem. I do not want the £200. I would rather it went to someone on a low income as a grant not a loan.

Why didn't the governmeny just raise the level of pension credit and increase Universal Credit and in work benefits to make sure the money available was targeted at those who needed it most?

Agreed Monica and why not stop giving the winter fuel allowance to all pensioners? The money should go to low income families and those on pension credit.

The trouble with that is that the threshold for Pension Credit is low and there are millions just over the threshold who are struggling, but still have to pay their energy bills.

I take your point Growstuff, perhaps the payment could be made only to those on the lower tax rate?

Until this year, I hadn't paid income tax for a few years because I received below the threshold. How would one differentiate between those who don't receive enough to pay tax from work and those who don't need to work for various reasons?

I don't think there's an ideal solution without raising Universal Credit and Pension Credit, which the Chancellor doesn't want to do for political reasons.

The way he's done it, it isn't a personal loan. It's a subsidy to the energy companies for this year, which then needs repaying over five years, so all people will stop moaning about price increases (way the Chancellor sees it). The extension of the Warm Homes scheme is supposed to target the most vulnerable, but I'll believe that when I see it.

But just see what has happened! This thread is about the huge rise in energy.

What am I talking about? Asylum seekers.

Get the point?

Grr

Urmstongran

I’m not being nasty. Okay, not ‘illegal’ migrants. I apologise for that comment. Migrants then. But c’mon. We all KNOW this needs fixing. £5 million a day? Beggars belief. It even dwarfs the PPE mess that has finished now. But the migrant crisis is ongoing (and growing). You know it is. How deep are your taxpayer pockets when you just don’t mind?

Actually, I said yesterday on another thread (can’t remember which one now) that net zero is a big mistake. Too much, too fast. Silly Boris. The UK generate only 1% of carbon emissions. Think on that when we pay our enormous bills. Minuscule whilst China is belching out their emissions on steroids.

Perhaps Ed Milliband’s green levy ought to be junked?

My comment wasn’t a ‘look there’s a squirrel’ one. I just happen to think in the round, that it’s an important point.

Nastiness and coward ness comes in all forms including those who think in the round.

How easy it is to attack those who are least able to help themselves, like tiny children and their families, who are utterly destitute. They have nothing.

I am not a Christian, but I do share some if my values with Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

Always, always care for those unable to care for themselves.

I will never ever go down that fascist road.