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Keir Starmer rescued by police

(298 Posts)
Nandalot Mon 07-Feb-22 19:18:14

Keir Starmer has to be rescued by police after being surrounded by an angry crowd who, misled by Johnson’s Commons statement, claimed he had helped a paedophile escape justice. It just shows how irresponsible, almost Trumpian, Johnson’s comment was.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/07/police-rescue-keir-starmer-after-protesters-surround-him-near-parliament

Josieann Wed 09-Feb-22 08:31:00

That's a very good point Mamie. I often wonder whether this lot were just inherently corrupt from the outset and got themselves into politics so as to practise this very behaviour, or did politics make them so? What I'm wondering is whether politics worldwide is generally attracting a different type of politician with dubious values.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 09-Feb-22 08:24:26

If you google politicians (both local and national) to see how many have been charged with criminal offences over the years it makes an interesting read.

I remember a couple of years ago Mr. Rees Mogg having to be surrounded by police for his protection when walking from the House of Commons with his young son. There have been Labour politicians needing a police escort at their own party conference (under Mr. Corbyn if my memory serves me right) Angela Rayner referring to Conservative MPs a Tory scum

Sadiq Khan has said on GMB this morning that the streets of London are not safe for any politicians and that he himself goes everywhere with five armed protection officers.

The words that are used in The House, and the confrontational body language which since cameras were installed is there for all to see, is on many occasions questionable.

I personally do not know what the answer is however, simply replacing the PM would be a start along the road.

Mamie Wed 09-Feb-22 08:12:06

I agree that there have always been individual corrupt politicians and sleaze. What seems to have gone is the disappearance of the underlying principles of Ministerial Responsibility and resignation for wrongdoing.
The problem with the current government is that people are not sacked, nor do they resign. This laissez-faire, "let's just ignore it and get away with it as long as we can" attitude is very worrying.
Previous politicians at least took responsibilities seriously and had a work ethic even if you disagreed with what they were doing; I don't think this shower do.

Josieann Wed 09-Feb-22 07:43:22

I agree that corruption and lies are now so commonplace that we have grown to expect them. But I disagree that this is mainly in the past few years with Johnson. The word sleaze, in a political sense, was around 40 or so years ago when all kinds of depraved people with big egos were turning politics into a circus.

FannyCornforth Wed 09-Feb-22 02:51:47

Grantanow

Johnson has contributed language to those morons who abused Starmer and he should apologise and resign. The Tory party is tainted by this disgusting excuse for a Prime Minister and Tory MPs had better get rid of him or they will face the music at the next General Election.

The thought of having to go through this until the next GE fills me with dread.
The country will be on fire if we have to wait until then to get some sort of leadership and integrity

growstuff Wed 09-Feb-22 02:28:40

Callistemon21

^And still you don't get it!^

It's you who is not getting it. Casdon explained why.

We get the other issue about standards of behaviour too.

I don't agree with Casdon's explanation. I do get it.

growstuff Wed 09-Feb-22 02:27:52

Callistemon21

^And still you don't get it!^

It's you who is not getting it. Casdon explained why.

We get the other issue about standards of behaviour too.

We will have to agree to differ.

As far as I'm concerned, any reference to what John McDonnell said was irrelevant. I am quite capable of reading what was written and I disagree. At best, it was a distraction and an attempt at mitigation for something very serious. It's not that I "don't get it".

Grantanow Wed 09-Feb-22 00:12:14

Johnson has contributed language to those morons who abused Starmer and he should apologise and resign. The Tory party is tainted by this disgusting excuse for a Prime Minister and Tory MPs had better get rid of him or they will face the music at the next General Election.

MaizieD Tue 08-Feb-22 23:58:56

Callistemon21

^And every time Johnson and his cronies behave in this disreputable way someone always pops up to say all political parties and governments are the same^
In that particular instance we were discussing gutter language and defamatory remarks.

Some evidence of all this gutter language and defamatory remarks by MPs would be helpful. With perhaps, an indication of the frequency with which it has been happening. Because I'm not altogether sure that it's true that it has become significantly worse in the past few years.

So far we have 2 high profile recent examples and 1 less high profile from some time ago. Any more on offer?

Callistemon21 Tue 08-Feb-22 23:42:28

And still you don't get it!

It's you who is not getting it. Casdon explained why.

We get the other issue about standards of behaviour too.

MayBee70 Tue 08-Feb-22 23:42:25

I agree, too.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 23:38:57

Eloethan

More evidence, if any is needed, of Johnson's devious and shameless character.

And every time Johnson and his cronies behave in this disreputable way someone always pops up to say all political parties and governments are the same. I disagree - there have been so many scandals with this government and I can't recall any other government that has been so mired in scandals The trouble is, because of their regularity, for some people it becomes almost normalised to view politics in this way.

I agree with you. That really is the point - it's become normalised and people don't see they are part of it.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 23:38:06

Callistemon21

^The above does not alter the fact that U.K. politics has become toxic, ALL parties need to take a hard look at how they present themselves and the language they use. If none of you can see this, well I give up^…

Yes, I see it GrannyGravy

Some of the language used is only fit for the gutter.
The bar has been lowered so far it's a wonder some still manage to crawl under it.

And still you don't get it!

I give up too!

Callistemon21 Tue 08-Feb-22 23:36:22

And every time Johnson and his cronies behave in this disreputable way someone always pops up to say all political parties and governments are the same
In that particular instance we were discussing gutter language and defamatory remarks.

Eloethan Tue 08-Feb-22 23:32:54

More evidence, if any is needed, of Johnson's devious and shameless character.

And every time Johnson and his cronies behave in this disreputable way someone always pops up to say all political parties and governments are the same. I disagree - there have been so many scandals with this government and I can't recall any other government that has been so mired in scandals The trouble is, because of their regularity, for some people it becomes almost normalised to view politics in this way.

Callistemon21 Tue 08-Feb-22 23:03:30

^The above does not alter the fact that U.K. politics has become toxic, ALL parties need to take a hard look at how they present themselves and the language they use. If none of you can see this, well I give up^…

Yes, I see it GrannyGravy

Some of the language used is only fit for the gutter.
The bar has been lowered so far it's a wonder some still manage to crawl under it.

Callistemon21 Tue 08-Feb-22 23:00:37

Lucca

Urmstongran. I can’t have been the only one watching it live on tv and noticed how Starmer ‘went pink’ when the camera panned to him. I think he was technically embarrassed because the jibe hit home. KS has a legal (some like the word forensic) mind. If Boris was wrong, why did KS not stand up and shout ‘SLANDER!’ at him?

He went pink ….he’s guilty? Probably in shock at the appalling accusation which had no relevance.

Why did he not stand up and shout ? He has some dignity,

Really barrel and scraping come to mind.

Starmer did not stand up and shout Slander because the wily Johnson knew he was safe in the House of Commons.
I doubt it was an off-the-cuff remark.

Parliamentary Privilege: A Common Pitfall

The importance of free speech in an MPs’ constitutional role is recognised and he or she is granted a special immunity. The Defamation Act 1996 provides that an MP is protected from legal liability for “words spoken or things done in the course of, or for the purposes of or incidental to, any proceedings in Parliament.

Some people do tend to go red in the face when they are angry and trying to contain themselves.

Casdon Tue 08-Feb-22 22:09:17

You did I’m afraid growstuff. The point GrannyGravy13 had made was a general point about the behaviour of politicians. It followed on from the previous point. You weren’t hearing what she was saying. I don’t disagree with your comments about Johnson as you will know from my previous posts on this thread, but the conversation had moved on to a further point.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 21:45:31

Casdon

You’ve missed the point I think growstuff. This isn’t about an individual, it’s a general point about the behaviour of politicians. There are MPs who behave appropriately and professionally, and others who don’t from all parties.

I haven't missed the point at all.

It isn't a general point about politicians in general - that's my point, which you don't seem to understand.

This is about the behaviour of Johnson, who has quite deliberately incited extremists and then is able to shrug his shoulders and claim "it's not me guv".

Yes, it is about him. He's the Prime Minister. There are no excuses or mitigations. He lied and smeared somebody. It doesn't matter how many other politicians or behave irresponsibly. He is responsible for what he says and does - and that's all there it is to it. No amount of childish tit-for-tat argument changes that.

Casdon Tue 08-Feb-22 21:20:57

You’ve missed the point I think growstuff. This isn’t about an individual, it’s a general point about the behaviour of politicians. There are MPs who behave appropriately and professionally, and others who don’t from all parties.

growstuff Tue 08-Feb-22 20:44:47

Casdon

I understand where you’re coming from GrannyGravy13. Both the main parties have elements who are seemingly unable to behave professionally, and do things which tarnish the reputation of all politicians in the eyes of the public.

But McDonnell has never been PM. FWIW I could never have voted for a Labour Party with him as a minister, but I just don't see that what he said is relevant.

Allsorts Tue 08-Feb-22 20:43:25

Politics is a dirty game. I wish there were courtesy and integrity, it’s getting worse. Shameful behaviour of those people. I am tired of gangs of people in big groups ignoring law and order for anything they feel indignant about, intimidating and bullying behaviour, wasting police time. They should receive heavy fines for public disorder. Second office, double fine and community service.

GillT57 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:38:02

MayBee70

Boris Johnson has declined to apologise for his language about Jo Cox and ducked a Commons debate on inflammatory rhetoric, instead attending a meeting of Tory MPs to say he will continue to use the phrase “surrender bill” to refer to the act passed to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

Johnson spoke at a meeting of the 1922 Committee of Conservative MPs the morning after being branded a disgrace for dismissing concerns about his inflammatory language in light of Cox’s murder by a far-right extremist.

In the Commons on Wednesday, he told one MP that her concerns about aggressive language fuelling violence were “humbug” and another that the best way to honour Cox was to “get Brexit done”.

Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
02:43
Outrage as Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as 'humbug' - video
The prime minister addressed some of the criticism, saying there was a need to moderate violent language on all sides of the debate. But he was reported to have told Tory MPs on Thursday that he would continue to use his language about the Benn Act (formally called the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) to stop a no-deal Brexit. He dubs it the “surrender bill” despite criticism that this paints his opponents in parliament as traitors guilty of a betrayal.

Johnson was met with shouts of “Will you apologise, prime minister?” from journalists as he left the meeting, but he walked away without commenting.

His senior adviser, Dominic Cummings, was shortly afterwards confronted on the parliamentary estate by the Labour MP Karl Turner, who said MPs including himself had received more death threats. Cummings responded: “Well, vote for a deal then.”

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Johnson was even criticised by his own sister, Rachel, who told Sky: “I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against.

Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
01:11
Boris Johnson's sister says his Jo Cox remarks were 'tasteless' – video
“I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said ‘Britain first’, of the far-right tendency, which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.

“My brother is using words like surrender and capitulation as if the people standing in the way of the blessed will of the people as defined by 17.4m votes in 2016 should be hung, drawn, quartered, tarred and feathered. I think that is highly reprehensible language to use.”

Tory MPs said the mood of Johnson’s meeting had been “largely supportive” but others sighed or raised their eyebrows when asked how he had performed.

Jo Cox, right, with her sister Kim Leadbeater in 2009.
Jo Cox's sister criticises Boris Johnson's Brexit rhetoric
Read more
Paul Scully, the deputy chairman of the Conservative party, said the prime minister acknowledged there had been “a lot of words said, a lot of attacks on female MPs and on members of the families of female politicians”.

“But I think there’s also a sense of conflation of those in the opposition, wrapping that up with the robust debate and the acknowledgment that the surrender act is a surrender act because it is literally surrendering power to the EU.”

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He added: “At the end of the day the surrender act is literally a backbench MP who has written a letter to give to the UK prime minister, which gives the EU permission to tell us when we can leave the EU. By any dictionary definition this surrenders power to the EU.”

As Johnson addressed his backbenchers, the Labour MP Jess Phillips brought an urgent question to the Commons on the subject of inflammatory language.

Rather than appearing himself, Johnson sent the junior minister Kevin Foster, who is responsible for the constitution.

Jeremy Corbyn said Johnson “has not respected this house by attending today”.

“The prime minister’s language and demeanour yesterday was nothing short of disgraceful,” the Labour leader said. “Three years ago our colleague Jo Cox was murdered by a far-right activist shouting: ‘Britain First. This is for Britain.’

“The language that politicians use matters – it has real consequences. To dismiss concerns from honourable members about the death threats they receive, and to dismiss concerns that the language used by the prime minister is being repeated in those death threats, is reprehensible.”

He accused Johnson of having “sought to entrench divisions” instead of calming them down.

“Not only should the prime minister comply with the law, he should come to this house and apologise for his conduct yesterday, which fell below the standards expected by the people of this country,” he said.

Phillips asked for Johnson and his advisers to meet her and Cox’s family so they could explain their grief and concerns about inflammatory language in politics.

“The use of language yesterday and over the past few weeks such as the surrender bill, such as invoking the war, such as betrayal and treachery, it has clearly been tested, and workshopped and worked up and entirely designed to inflame hatred and division,” she said. “I get it, it works, it is working. It is not sincere, it is totally planned, it is completely and utterly a strategy designed by somebody to harm and cause hatred in our country.

“When I hear of my friend Jo Cox’s murder and the way it has made me and my colleagues feel, and feel scared, described as humbug, I actually don’t feel anger towards the prime minister, I feel pity for those of you who have to toe his line.

“The people opposite me know how appalling it was to describe the murder of my friend as mere humbug.”

Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
0
Jess Phillips: Boris Johnson's language is 'designed to inflame hatred' – video
Foster took a more conciliatory tone than Johnson, saying the murder of Cox was a “dreadful crime”, but he echoed the prime minister’s argument that delay over Brexit was causing tensions.

“The government is also considering what further steps are necessary to ensure the safety of parliamentarians and their staff,” he added. “Crucially this applies not only to the vicinities of parliament but also in constituencies and online.”

However, not all Tory MPs appeared to be intent on calming tensions. Sir Bernard Jenkin, a Eurosceptic backbencher, said MPs should not reference the murder of Cox to “try and make political points”.

MPs responded with shouts of outrageous when Jenkin said: “There is already a danger in these exchanges of it turning into a holier-than-thou competition.

“I think we should reflect on how much unhappiness and anxiety there is among members of the house, and that this is going to be expressed in various ways, and people are going to use robust and emotive language in order to express their views, and that is entirely understandable.

“Can I just make one request, that we no longer invoke the name of any person who has been the victim of attacks in order to try and make political points.”

Apologies for the long read but I’d forgotten this. Johnson has history…..

I am ashamed to say that Bernard Jenkins is my MP but proud to say that I didn't put him there with my vote.

Ramblingrose22 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:34:50

At present it is the leader of the Conservative party and those who defend him who are dragging our politics into the gutter.
Bojo is just another Trump, inciting morons who enjoy protesting to choose Starmer as a convenient target regardless of the hurt caused to the families of Savile's victims by using this basesless slur as one of his dead cats on the table.
How much lower can he and the Conservative party go....

GrannyGravy13 Tue 08-Feb-22 20:26:26

Casdon

I understand where you’re coming from GrannyGravy13. Both the main parties have elements who are seemingly unable to behave professionally, and do things which tarnish the reputation of all politicians in the eyes of the public.

Thank you Casdon