Keir Starmer rescued by police

MaizieD

Still people here sticking obstinately to the 'Starmer should apologise' rubbish.

The initial failure to prosecute was because the victims wouldn't give evidence in court because they thought they were the only one affected. The police didn't let them know there were more. Would you have wanted to be the sole person to give evidence against such a prominent celebrity?

Starmer actually set up an inquiry into the whole affair and made big changes as the result of it (has the beloved Boris done anything about an inquiry into the whole covid fiasco that caused thousands of unnecessary deaths yet? ). He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS. He did that nearly ten years ago. So he has actually done something about it.

Is he expected to do it all over again because the ignorant won't look for the truth or take any notice of it when it is presented to them?

I thought I might have calmed down a bit by now. But reading some of what has been posted in the meantime has just set me off again.

Same here. I am truly disgusted by some of the posters on here defending their hero. No excuses for this, in fact I am seriously considering whether I wish to keep company with people who think it acceptable to behave as Johnson does. I am very happy to debate and chat about politics, but this is appalling and in real life, I would walk away.

Ramblingrose22

Not sure of the relevance of quoting McDonnell from 2018?

Thankfully he's of no influence or importance any more in the Labour Party and one of his best mates, Laura Pidcock, resigned recently from the National Executive Committee.

Someone once said that we only get the politicians we deserve. I hope it's not true and I am looking forward to the day when Bojo gets his come-uppance - whether it's when the police investigation is completed and he gets a Fixed Penalty Notice or fine, when the full Sue Gray report is published or when we know the May local election results.

The Tories don't - so far - seem to mind him bringing their party into disrepute but they won't allow him to continue if they think he'll lose the next general election for them.

I think the party definitely minds Mr. Johnson’s actions/ non-actions.

I hope that there are meetings and discussion going on behind doors regarding a plan of action and working on finding the next Conservative leader.

The Mr. McDonnell quote was just a reminder that this toxicity has been around for a few years, nothing new unfortunately.

Maudi

Mud sticks and seems it's stuck on Starmer he will forever be tarnished right or not of being in charge of the CPS and letting Jimmy Saville off the hook to commit more obscene acts. Also the photo of Starmer and Rayner kneeling in their office to BLM didn't go down to well did it, well perhaps some of his supporters on here liked it, but I don't think the silent majority of Labour voters in the real did.

Would you like a few photos of savile and Thatcher? How would that go down with Tory members?

GrannyGravy13

growstuff I am neither defending nor am I excusing Mr.Johnson, I was just trying to make the point that there has been an under belly of toxicity running through U.K. politics for several years now.

I'm not disputing that, but I would rather have a PM who rises above it rather than contributing to it.

Not sure of the relevance of quoting McDonnell from 2018?

Thankfully he's of no influence or importance any more in the Labour Party and one of his best mates, Laura Pidcock, resigned recently from the National Executive Committee.

Someone once said that we only get the politicians we deserve. I hope it's not true and I am looking forward to the day when Bojo gets his come-uppance - whether it's when the police investigation is completed and he gets a Fixed Penalty Notice or fine, when the full Sue Gray report is published or when we know the May local election results.

The Tories don't - so far - seem to mind him bringing their party into disrepute but they won't allow him to continue if they think he'll lose the next general election for them.

growstuff I am neither defending nor am I excusing Mr.Johnson, I was just trying to make the point that there has been an under belly of toxicity running through U.K. politics for several years now.

Ramblingrose22

Bojo criticises the actions of the protesters but can't understand that his own behaviour in using a baseless slur against Starmer was just as appalling and unacceptable. But hey ho - why expect anything different from a compulsive liar ?
Matthew Parris was right in a recent article that Bojo has a long history of damaging the lives of many who engage with him if it will save his own skin. Shame it has to include the British people.

Bojo has a long history of damaging the lives of many who engage with him if it will save his own skin.

I think that's about the truth of it.

I personally don't think he cares one jot about anything other than his own ambition, nor for anyone - only if they are useful to him in some way.

He thought money spent on investigating historic child abuse was a waste. Was heard to say "f**k business" when the issues facing such were being discussed. Whether it's true or not about the "let the bodies pile high" comment, I don't know but enough people have verified that he did say it. He has made awful comments about the demographic he termed "blue collar workers", saying they were "feckless, lazy, usually drunk... etc". Not to mention the fact that when he was trying to win a seat in the Commons for the first time he said that Britain's interests "on balance" served best by maintaining our membership (of the EU) and that withdrawal would mean "a worrying loss of influence".

I don't even know what he does believe in, but he appears to be a really unpleasant man. I wish him no harm, but I do wish he'd go. But he won't because he hasn't got the capacity for self-reflection and will never admit to being wrong or having made a bad judgement call.

I’ve rejoined the Labour Party because people like McDonnell are no longer influencing it. I’m sure there are a lot of people like me. I don’t condone comments like that.

GrannyGravy13

I know that two wrongs do not make a right, but thought I would repost this quote from John McDonell (2018)

I want to be in a situation where no Tory MP, No Minister, can travel anywhere the Country, or show their face anywhere in public, without direct action

There is a toxicity pervading all sides of the House, and I have no idea who has the cajunas to put a stop to it. Not Mr.Johnson that’s for sure, not sure about Mr.Starmer.

I doubt that there are many young men or women who aspire to become MPs at the moment, who would be willing to put up with the constant abuse, scrutiny and some cases physical threats to their lives?

I'm not excusing McDonnell, but that doesn't excuse what happened to Starmer (and others).

Anarchist groups like Resistance GB aren't about party politics or even Right versus Left.

The fact is that Johnson is the PM of the UK and should be leading by example, but is appealing to people who don't care about laws and what most people regard as a civilised society.

growstuff

JenniferEccles

If Piers Corbyn was involved, the demonstration was obviously centred around the anti vaccination idiots, but of course the media will pounce on the odd ‘Jimmy Savile’ reference and blow it up out of all proportion.

No, the demonstration was organised by "Resistance GB", which claims to promote "Natural Rights, Civil Liberties, Police Abuses, Government Criminality, Legacy Media Deception and Civil & Cultural Resistance" and is fundamentally an anarchist group. They were behind the harrassing of Michael Gove, Anna Soubry, Nick Gibb and others. Similarities with the mob which invaded Capitol Hill are obvious. Piers Corbyn is listed as a supporter. For some reason, they see themselves as defenders of child abuse victims, in the same way as QAnon does. One of the organisers was a Conservative councillor, who was kicked out of the party for racist remarks.

This is absolutely not to do with the media blowing something out of proportion. It's bad enough having these fruit loops around, but it's another level to have the PM of the country legitimising their slogans with his crass accusation.

Thank you for clarifying who was truly behind it.

I know that two wrongs do not make a right, but thought I would repost this quote from John McDonell (2018)

I want to be in a situation where no Tory MP, No Minister, can travel anywhere the Country, or show their face anywhere in public, without direct action

There is a toxicity pervading all sides of the House, and I have no idea who has the cajunas to put a stop to it. Not Mr.Johnson that’s for sure, not sure about Mr.Starmer.

I doubt that there are many young men or women who aspire to become MPs at the moment, who would be willing to put up with the constant abuse, scrutiny and some cases physical threats to their lives?

JenniferEccles

If Piers Corbyn was involved, the demonstration was obviously centred around the anti vaccination idiots, but of course the media will pounce on the odd ‘Jimmy Savile’ reference and blow it up out of all proportion.

No, the demonstration was organised by "Resistance GB", which claims to promote "Natural Rights, Civil Liberties, Police Abuses, Government Criminality, Legacy Media Deception and Civil & Cultural Resistance" and is fundamentally an anarchist group. They were behind the harrassing of Michael Gove, Anna Soubry, Nick Gibb and others. Similarities with the mob which invaded Capitol Hill are obvious. Piers Corbyn is listed as a supporter. For some reason, they see themselves as defenders of child abuse victims, in the same way as QAnon does. One of the organisers was a Conservative councillor, who was kicked out of the party for racist remarks.

This is absolutely not to do with the media blowing something out of proportion. It's bad enough having these fruit loops around, but it's another level to have the PM of the country legitimising their slogans with his crass accusation.

Boz- that is exactly it - he's a human wrecking ball. And he's got away with it for so long that he's not going to stop now.

The Tories will rue the day they put up Johnson as the Brexit posterboy. Whoever follows as PM will have an almost impossible job in winning the next election when the cost-of-living crisis will have bitten hard.
Everything Johnson touches turns to dross.

Bojo criticises the actions of the protesters but can't understand that his own behaviour in using a baseless slur against Starmer was just as appalling and unacceptable. But hey ho - why expect anything different from a compulsive liar ?
Matthew Parris was right in a recent article that Bojo has a long history of damaging the lives of many who engage with him if it will save his own skin. Shame it has to include the British people.

Starmer went pink with suppressed fury that the PM slandered him in a public place where he couldn't call out the lie and defend himself. What a coward Johnson is! If he had said that anywhere else but in the priviliged atmosphere of the HoC , he would now be facing a charge of slander.

If it is "not done" to accuse a fellow MP (or PM) of lying, then surely it is equally "not done" to lie in accusing him of something that the accuser is perfectly aware is untrue and could not have been true given the absence of evidence that existed at the time

How can people be so deluded? When you put a clown in a palace the clown does not become a king. The palace becomes a circus.

Johnson must go.

Lucca

Urmstongran. I can’t have been the only one watching it live on tv and noticed how Starmer ‘went pink’ when the camera panned to him. I think he was technically embarrassed because the jibe hit home. KS has a legal (some like the word forensic) mind. If Boris was wrong, why did KS not stand up and shout ‘SLANDER!’ at him?

He went pink ….he’s guilty? Probably in shock at the appalling accusation which had no relevance.

Why did he not stand up and shout ? He has some dignity,

Really barrel and scraping come to mind.

Good grief. Then again it’s the sort of comment that could only come from someone who was also a fan of Trump.

Elegran it would be so nice if the Johnson supporters on this topic would read your post plus all the others which explain the FACTS!

Urmstongran. I can’t have been the only one watching it live on tv and noticed how Starmer ‘went pink’ when the camera panned to him. I think he was technically embarrassed because the jibe hit home. KS has a legal (some like the word forensic) mind. If Boris was wrong, why did KS not stand up and shout ‘SLANDER!’ at him?

He went pink ….he’s guilty? Probably in shock at the appalling accusation which had no relevance.

Why did he not stand up and shout ? He has some dignity,

Really barrel and scraping come to mind.

After my first paragraph, there should have been another sentence.

^To prosecute someone, you need to have a certain minimum amount of evidence. If that were not so, people would end up in court just because some liar had falsely accused them out of sheer spite - and at the resulting trial the lack of evidence would mean they were acquitted. Then the cry would be "What a waste of public money having the expense of all these trials just because of spite on the part of the accusers! The Prosecution Service is supposed to check that there is a reasonable case to answer before they give the go-ahead!"

Adlai Stevenson (Democrat), during the presidential campaign, 1952 said

"I offer my opponents a bargain; if they will stop telling falsehoods about us, I will stop telling the truth about them".

70 years later and nothing seems to have changed here or in America. In both countries, the conservatives have become more extreme and some of their supporters more gullible.

Starmer actually set up an inquiry into the whole affair and made big changes as the result of it (has the beloved Boris done anything about an inquiry into the whole covid fiasco that caused thousands of unnecessary deaths yet? ). He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS. He did that nearly ten years ago. So he has actually done something about it. (MaizieD Tue 08-Feb-22 12:04:26)

In other words, Starmer has been held accountable. "He also took responsibility and apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS"

If Boris Johnson had done this - "partygate" would be over by now. The way to defend yourself is to be honest and open, admit mistakes if they were made, or - if you think they weren't, explain truthfully what happened. What Johnson has done is point his finger at another saying, "well, what about him. In other words he's used the technique of responding to difficult questions by making a counter-accusation. 'Whataboutism' - it's almost at playground level and is certainly not the way a mature individual in high office should conduct himself.

To prosecute someone, you need to have a certain minimum amount of evidence. If that were not so, people would end up in court just because some liar had falsely accused them out of sheer spite - and at the resulting trial the lack of evidence would mean they were acquitted.

When the CPO were considering whether Saville ought to stand trial on the evidence that they had at that time they only had two accusers - and neither of them were brave enough to stand up in court to repeat their accusations at a time when they would have been the only ones No-one else had provided any evidence. A trial without evidence is not a trial.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If the CPS had been equipped with a time machine, they could have boarded it after Saville's death and returned to the moment of that first consideration armed with all the stories that surfaced once the odious paedophile was safely out of circulation. They would then have had enough evidence to convict him several times over. Sadly, time has to be lived in one direction only.

Did anyone see the Social Dilemma about the power of social media and the press?

A Threat To Democracy

As the presidential election approaches, U.S. political campaigns and foreign actors are once again using social media to advance their messages. Orlowski says he feels afraid of political misinformation and concerned about “the breakdown of truth,” noting that it’s getting progressively harder for people who disagree with each other to have productive discussions.

This is where we're heading. Everything is picked up by the press and fed to the baying crowd who want to be heard. And who want to be on the right side.

I'm not sticking up for Boris here. He needs to go. However I wonder what the future holds when anything and everything gets ripped to pieces

Very interesting documentary if you get chance to see it. Those involved are the very people who have worked on all the platforms available to us today.

www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/18/social-dilemma-director