Why are we paying £12 BN extra NI a year?

Its Bojo's next slush fund making sure he's got enough to pilfer when he wants it,The £350 MILLION a week he promised when we left the EU isn't enough to give to his mates ,or keep Carrie in the style she wishes to have for life ,

The truth is I think is that they are trying to push people into private health care.

But as no one seems bothered this is almost certain to happen without a single nationwide discussion as to what we want.

What a ridiculous comment paddyann. Staffing is the major issue plus lack of beds. I don’t think even Boris would dare spend NHS money on his wife!!

Hope you don’t end up like us in Australia, or worse still, America. The private health companies do not cover hospital costs, only a part of them and you can be seriously out of pocket.

Brexit caused staffing levels to drop even further. We were already something like 90+k short before Brexit.

The Tories took away the nursing bursary which caused further shortages.

It’s no surprise that waiting lists may grow as people come forward who had previously put off seeking medical advice due to Covid
Can’t really see how people are being pushed towards private health care. If you have the money then fine but many don’t

NI.. Is not just for Health Care, which primarily comes from Tax.
It covers Pensions, Maternity, Sick pay, unemployment benefit.
As for losing the Nursing Bursary, yes that's a big mistake, but remember who brought in Student loans for all... Labour.

rosie1959

It’s no surprise that waiting lists may grow as people come forward who had previously put off seeking medical advice due to Covid
Can’t really see how people are being pushed towards private health care. If you have the money then fine but many don’t

Of course people are being pushed towards private health care. People are desperate to be treated or to have investigations, so will jump through hoops.

Not only that, but many standard treatments are provided by private suppliers, who make a profit, which is money which isn't being used for frontline treatments.

Gwyneth

What a ridiculous comment paddyann. Staffing is the major issue plus lack of beds. I don’t think even Boris would dare spend NHS money on his wife!!

While I agree that paddyanne's assumption is not really credible I agree because there is no ringfencing of allocations to various areas.

But the problems of the NHS are due to underfunding and the underfunding is a result of political ideology, hatred of state spending, not of a shortage of money.

I was reading yesterday a highly qualified nurse saying that she was paid £29,000 pa for a highly stressful, responsible job, working shortstaffed and in danger of making serious errors. She left the NHS to to do the same job in a private setting where she earns £41,000 pa in a properly staffed and stress free environment. She said that several of her former NHS colleagues have done the same.

Cynics might say that this is all part of the government's agenda. Drain the NHS of resources and claim that it isn't working...

rosie1959

It’s no surprise that waiting lists may grow as people come forward who had previously put off seeking medical advice due to Covid
Can’t really see how people are being pushed towards private health care. If you have the money then fine but many don’t

Suggestion by a consultant on BBC this morning.

Visgir1

NI.. Is not just for Health Care, which primarily comes from Tax.
It covers Pensions, Maternity, Sick pay, unemployment benefit.
As for losing the Nursing Bursary, yes that's a big mistake, but remember who brought in Student loans for all... Labour.

NI isn't actually ring-fenced for anything. It all goes into a big Treasury melting pot.

growstuff

Visgir1

NI.. Is not just for Health Care, which primarily comes from Tax.
It covers Pensions, Maternity, Sick pay, unemployment benefit.
As for losing the Nursing Bursary, yes that's a big mistake, but remember who brought in Student loans for all... Labour.

NI isn't actually ring-fenced for anything. It all goes into a big Treasury melting pot.

Absolutely, growstuff.

Neither does it come out of taxation.

Taxation doesn't fund spending...

But will the additional payments of NI be ring-fenced for hospitals etc to reduce waiting lists or will this go into one big pot? I hope that the money will be monitored carefully to ensure it is spent in reducing waiting times. There is a lot of wastage in the NHS already with high salaries being paid to non medical staff.

Gwyneth

But will the additional payments of NI be ring-fenced for hospitals etc to reduce waiting lists or will this go into one big pot? I hope that the money will be monitored carefully to ensure it is spent in reducing waiting times. There is a lot of wastage in the NHS already with high salaries being paid to non medical staff.

Of course it won't, *Gwyneth. There is no treasury mechanism designed to do that.

Extraordinary how no-one seems to object to high salaries being paid to private company's CEOs and directors, who don't actually do any of the jobs that their company employs people for, but they object to managerial salaries in the NHS.

Skilled management is as important to an organisation as the 'shop floor' jobs are. The real complaint should be that the workers, at the coal face so to speak, aren't getting the pay they deserve.

Thank you for your reply maizie and I am certainly concerned about the high salaries paid to CEOs and directors etc but as a contributor to the NHS I want to be assured that taxpayers money is actually spent on improving waiting lists etc and not on more layers of management. I think the government needs to be very specific on how this money is being spent. For me that is medical staff rather than management,

The rise in NI was sold to the public as specifically to fund the NHS and care services but as others have pointed out there’s no mechanism to ring fence taxation in this way. Saw Sajid Javid fielding questions about Rishi Sunak not signing off on funding intended to tackle the NHS waiting list for treatment. Trying his best to defend the treasury and promising action, but frankly I don’t trust any of them where the NHS is concerned.

It's definitely not funding NHS dentistry. People I know that had fillings needing done during/shortly after Lockdown, had to pay private dental rates. Apparently dentists are leaving in droves.

Pepper59

It's definitely not funding NHS dentistry. People I know that had fillings needing done during/shortly after Lockdown, had to pay private dental rates. Apparently dentists are leaving in droves.

Where we live there are very few NHS dentists but this is nothing new and certainly was the case long before Covid

MaizieD

Gwyneth

But will the additional payments of NI be ring-fenced for hospitals etc to reduce waiting lists or will this go into one big pot? I hope that the money will be monitored carefully to ensure it is spent in reducing waiting times. There is a lot of wastage in the NHS already with high salaries being paid to non medical staff.

Of course it won't, *Gwyneth. There is no treasury mechanism designed to do that.

Extraordinary how no-one seems to object to high salaries being paid to private company's CEOs and directors, who don't actually do any of the jobs that their company employs people for, but they object to managerial salaries in the NHS.

Skilled management is as important to an organisation as the 'shop floor' jobs are. The real complaint should be that the workers, at the coal face so to speak, aren't getting the pay they deserve.

I agree. It would be interesting to see how much profit is being siphoned out of the NHS to pay for the directors and shareholders of the companies which provide services under the NHS logo.

Agree that the large NI increase was badged as paying for reforming the social care system which would relieve pressures on the NHS. Then we were told that the NHS catch-up would swallow all the extra income for at least two years (goodbye social care reform).
The govt can allocate tax revenue where it wants. What seems lacking is any kind of costed plan of where it is to be spent. And when we are to see more funding going into social care.

Some interesting points have been made about the new privately run 'health care units' delivering NHS care.Their profits are presumably factored into the costs charged to the NHS, but how and from where are their staff recruited? What assurances do we have about qualifications and training, and where do they fit into the system if surgery goes wrong?

Some posters are knowledgeable about this, many thanks for explaining.

There is a huge problem with staffing shortages some of it is because doctors and nurses are not treated well. eg there is a national shortage of consultant anaesthetists with another big problem in the pipeline in a few years time because of an "age bulge". A change was made in anaesthetic training in 2020 resulting in over 700 trainees being unable to progress on to the next stage of training, this is likely to add at least another two years to their training. These partially trained doctors can either work in hospital jobs on a contract which doesn't contribute to their training or locum. Locums are paid a much higher rate per hour, have greater flexibility on when and where they work and generally have a much better work/life balance. This is very costly for the NHS and IMO complete madness. I know this because my daughter is one of the 700 and guess what? She's intending to take several months break to volunteer abroad, she's also considering moving abroad to work permanently. The waste in the NHS is mind boggling!

Visgirl nursing /midwifery are £10,000 a year here in Scotland ,despite the scare stories in the MSM nursing students have more than doubled in the past 5 years .Other countries in Scandinavia and some Australian states are using the SNHS in lectures as a huge success story .Check online as I dont have time to find links,

thats Bursaries are £10.000 a year