Lifting all Covid resrictions- how do you feel about it?

Thank you MOnica & Baggs very good posts.
I knew what I wanted to say and you both nailed it.

Baggs

I was frightened in the early days of the pandemic. So was MrB and he's about as contrasuggestible as it's possible to be. Our fear wore off after a while and we have mixed with vaxxed and unvaxxed people even in our own house and garden with no ill effects. Perhaps we have good immune systems or perhaps we've just been lucky but, after two years, we feel it really is time for restrictions on people's liberty to live in a normal, unfrightened manner to be lifted.

This is not a comment on anyone else, just a point of view put forward quietly as being equally worthy of respect as those at the other end of the range of opinions. The thread title asks "how do you feel about it?" Our answer is we are glad and only sorry that Scotland is keeping restrictions for longer than England. I haven't checked what Wales and NI are doing.

In what way(s) are people's liberties being curtailed?

If people want to be "freedom fighters", I really wish they'd find a worthy cause.

Mind you, mum did do some spectacularly bad injuries to herself and still walk around like it

I don't quite know how to phrase or explain this but I'll try.

After any major national or international event - war, famine, earthquake, flooding, etc - we try to rebuild as quickly as possible to get back to normal. But it's never quite the same 'normal' because these events often reveal things... weaknesses in the way society is structured both physically and politically. For example, after the second world war, we started to build a better world for the impoverished - housing, welfare and, of course, the creation of the NHS. Major flooding often reveals the weaknesses in our flood defence infrastructure... we built the Thames Barrier to prevent a repeat of the 1953 devastation. Earthquakes reveal the flaws in building construction which change the way engineers design such buildings.

The pandemic has shown us that some people can effectively work from home - saving both time and energy spent on gridlocked motorways or in overcrowded trains... easing the notorious "rush hour" misery (not to mention the pollution). The wearing of masks (the correct masks and the correct way of wearing them) has indicated that in CERTAIN environments they help to stop the spread of highly infectious viruses / bacteria. How many working days, pre-pandemic were lost to people being off sick with colds and Flu? There was a time when the great British stiff upper lip demanded that we just 'carry on' and that's what we did, until people got pissed off with constantly being bombarded with colds, chest infections, etc, etc, and the culture changed, and people demanded that you stay home for a day or two when in the 'incubation' period of your infection.

We do have to get back to leading a normal life again - as a CEV individual I've been attempting to do just that, right from the beginning. Taking advantage of 'quiet' periods in supermarkets was something I did early in the isolation period. Had people coming into my home to conduct business meetings - masked and distanced - but still working (and paying tax).

What I'm inarticulately trying to say is that we all want to get back to normality again - but why does it have to be the 'old' normal? We evolve and change all the time, hopefully creating a better society (ha!), maybe doing things differently because we've learned something about ourselves individually and collectively.

Why can't we have a measured, thoughtful and inclusive re-appraisal of the way we live - and will have to live with the virus? If wearing masks in crowded places in which others have no choice but to occupy helps prevent the spread of the virus - also colds and Flu and possibly other infections, why is it not possible to embrace this as part of the new normal? Even the vulnerable want a return to normal life - they are part of society, they also work, shop, spend their money and help to keep the economy alive.

I appreciate others will completely disagree with me - but please don't tell me "wear a mask if you're scared" because I'm not, and because it doesn't work like that.

I was frightened in the early days of the pandemic. So was MrB and he's about as contrasuggestible as it's possible to be. Our fear wore off after a while and we have mixed with vaxxed and unvaxxed people even in our own house and garden with no ill effects. Perhaps we have good immune systems or perhaps we've just been lucky but, after two years, we feel it really is time for restrictions on people's liberty to live in a normal, unfrightened manner to be lifted.

This is not a comment on anyone else, just a point of view put forward quietly as being equally worthy of respect as those at the other end of the range of opinions. The thread title asks "how do you feel about it?" Our answer is we are glad and only sorry that Scotland is keeping restrictions for longer than England. I haven't checked what Wales and NI are doing.

Ah, yes, that's the one, grannygravy.
I can't say I ever had to wait with my mum or daughter as far as I remember.

MissAdventure

I realise this is anecdotal, but I have had numerous hospital appointments this last year, and there are still around 20 ambulances outside each time, still a queue to even get into a and e...

If you re going to our seaside hospital MissAdventure this time five years ago I regularly waited in the ambulance outside A & E with my terminally ill Mum. Unfortunately it’s being going on for years.

I realise this is anecdotal, but I have had numerous hospital appointments this last year, and there are still around 20 ambulances outside each time, still a queue to even get into a and e...

And here's a report comparing Covid deaths with flu/pneumonia deaths:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsduetocoronaviruscovid19comparedwithdeathsfrominfluenzaandpneumoniaenglandandwales/latest#death-occurrences-due-to-covid-19-influenza-and-pneumonia

LtEve

2017-18 was the bad flu year, mainly due to an ineffective vaccine. It's quite difficult to find the figures now but from memory it hit 300 deaths per day. I remember it well as I was working as a paramedic and it was horrific, massive delays outside hospitals and regular 14 hour shifts.

Here's the link to the statistics. I expect there are some contact details, so you can tell them they're wrong.

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/influenzadeathsin20182019and2020

LtEve

2017-18 was the bad flu year, mainly due to an ineffective vaccine. It's quite difficult to find the figures now but from memory it hit 300 deaths per day. I remember it well as I was working as a paramedic and it was horrific, massive delays outside hospitals and regular 14 hour shifts.

You'd better tell the government they got their figures wrong.

Josieann

^Those of us who prefer to wear masks have been called anxious and fearful and scaremongering.^
I agree, the word "frightened" in this thread was poorly chosen by a poster, but it is only one poster. It seems like people are now adding 3 or 4 additional adjectives to add weight to their feelings which can start to appear like exaggeration.

I never have the flu jab, but this year I decided to treat it the same as covid and had all the vaccinations, even though I expected flu was far less dangerous.

Synonyms for "frightened" have been used many times by a number of posters on GN over the last couple of years.

Thick was quite poorly chosen, too.
It's a general air of people imagining us as meek little scaredy cats, cowering away with a bottle of antibac at the ready.

Also the assumption that e everyone has the option to stay home.
That isn't how the uk works - we have to work.

Those of us who prefer to wear masks have been called anxious and fearful and scaremongering.
I agree, the word "frightened" in this thread was poorly chosen by a poster, but it is only one poster. It seems like people are now adding 3 or 4 additional adjectives to add weight to their feelings which can start to appear like exaggeration.

I never have the flu jab, but this year I decided to treat it the same as covid and had all the vaccinations, even though I expected flu was far less dangerous.

It’s not just death rates that are important (although a fairly well accepted figure seems to be that covid has a mortality rate ten times higher than most strains of flu - obviously that will be a moving feast).

I recently worked in a specialist NHS clinic. Not a covid clinic but some of our patients ended up there due to the impact of covid. That could be after severe or mild infection. Preliminary data was showing very clearly that Covid patients took longer to recover (or not recover), and required more appointments. So the impact on the NHS will continue for some time.

Thinking they because people aren’t dying it’s fine to let everyone catch it is fairly naive. And a large part of the problem medics have with getting rid of masks & easy access to lateral flows. They know there is more to covid than the numbers it kills.

Are the covid deaths over and above that, daily, now?

2017-18 was the bad flu year, mainly due to an ineffective vaccine. It's quite difficult to find the figures now but from memory it hit 300 deaths per day. I remember it well as I was working as a paramedic and it was horrific, massive delays outside hospitals and regular 14 hour shifts.

I did not say flu and COVID were the same I said the text of the poster who posted it could just as much apply to flu as COVID.

I disagree. Covid is much more contagious than flu and the effects are much more serious - even with advances in medication. Even in a bad flu year, such as 2018, there were 1598 flu deaths. There have been over 160,000 deaths from Covid in just less than two years.

Anybody with any common sense would balance risks and come to the conclusion that the risk of becoming seriously ill with flu is lower than Covid and would be prepared to take more chances. The risk of being infected with flu is significantly lower and the effects are likely to be less serious.

Even if pneumonia deaths are added to flu deaths, there are still less than half the number of deaths every year.

Those of us who prefer to wear masks have been called anxious and fearful and scaremongering.

I have not been rude I have just asked how wearing a mask and taking lateral flows impinges on freedoms. No-one has replied to that yet. I have asked how someone’s life will change between last week and next because my life has been back to normal for months. I just wear a mask and take lateral flows and will continue to do so.

I think it’s fine for someone at risk to decide they will expose themselves. I think it’s less fine for to expose others to that risk when a simple mask/lateral flow would reduce it. I recognise the government plans leave the least well off with little choice.

Well said, M0nica

I did not say flu and COVID were the same I said the text of the poster who posted it could just as much apply to flu as COVID.

Every virus is different and affects people in different ways and no one seems to be taking on board that with vaccination, while the virus remains with us, and that looks likely to be forever, the risk of getting the disease for everyone, including those most at risk, has fallen dramatically.

As DH has found out to his cost, you can be vulnerable and ill in hospital at the height of the pandemic, at a time when the COVID variant prevalent was far more severe and not get COVID, but pick up another respiratory virus, which is antibiotic resistant, comes close to killing you, and leaves you with damaged lungs. If you are vulnerable you can catch COVID, flu, viruses that are trivial to some but could be dangerous to you and you just have to decide how you are going to live the rest of your life.

For some people it will lead to a decision to seclude, but the danger for them extends well beyond COVID to so many other viruses, others will decide to get back to normal life as best they can.

I think it is offensive the way so many people on this thread at the cautious end of the spectrum spend so much time saying and showing their contempt for those who do not agree with them.

I and others have shown complete respect for their decisions they should have the courtesy to realise that we will have reached our decisions after careful thought and are due the same respect.

I appreciate this is anecdotal evidence, but I currently know of 3 unconnected households with Covid, in my area which local TV says is one of worst in England. Two households could be considered vulnerable, one not.
For the last 2 years I've only known 1 household at a time with it.

I know Johnson is no virologist but there is no logic to this at all. Elderly/vulnerable people can get free lateral flows - but people visiting them can’t. What’s the point of being able to find out you caught covid from someone who couldn’t get tested to see whether they had covid before visiting you?

More info here - all the papers seem to be saying the same www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/22/people-visiting-care-homes-in-england-will-have-to-pay-for-covid-test?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2zVTMBGIpuMFF9ybeDiF28WzJ8PjC-aZk57tZHCF0JzMTdBWXFNUbX4m0

I suppose wealthier families will be able to pay for their tests before visiting vulnerable family members while people who can’t afford the tests will just have to take the risk or not see people they care about.

Nice bit of levelling up (under) there from the Tories.

Marydoll

Unfortunately, you can say this as much as you like, but those who are dismissive and accusing some of us, of scaremongering and overreacting, have absolutely no idea of the damage Covid confections can actually cause. As Pammie has said, it is multi systemic.

At a recent hospital appointment, a very experienced cardiologist advised me that, before working in Covid ICU, he had no conception of the irrerprebable damage Covid could cause in the heart, even in the healthiest of patients. "It is nothing like 'flu, nor anything we have seen before", he said.

We need to find a balance, between restrictive measures and freedom. I'm in despair at reading some of the posts on here. Some posters absolutely haven't a clue, what Covid can do.

Good post - wise comments.

There's a lot of misinformation floating around about this virus. So much anecdotal 'evidence'... "my neighbour had it and said it was just like a bad cold"... "it's just like the Flu"... "the government are just trying to scare us to keep us under control"... etc, etc.

Last year I spent 4 months in hospital (unrelated to Covid) and had conversations with two consultants who were shocked at what they were witnessing - like your cardiologist.

As for the government trying to "control" us with scaremongering... it's utterly ridiculous. It wants us to go out and about, to go to work, to spend money in restaurants, pubs, nightclubs - it wants the economy to function. Regardless of Johnson's failings in the way he's dealt with this pandemic - the last thing he and his government want is for us to stay locked down indoors, the government do not want the economy to grind to a halt, it would not serve them well, and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

And of course the goal has to be to return to some kind of normality, but the thinking has to be critical, measured and objective. Johnson is a crowd-pleaser and he's capitulated and pandered to some of the worst elements (not necessarily on GN) in order to maintain his popularity. There is no logical reason why he could not have waited until Spring to remove all restrictions but it suits his purpose to do it now and many of us know why he's done it. I do not believe for one minute that he has the welfare of the nation at heart nor that it played any part in his decision. He will hang on to power at any price and I don't think he cares one jot about those who will pay it.

Reading about Scotland ending all restrictions on 21st March I was surprised to learn that there has never been a legal requirement, in Scotland, to isolate after a positive covid test. I assumed that it was law across the UK.

Covid in Scotland: All legal restrictions to end on 21 March www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60482303