Ukraine

maddyone

The small Baltic states have been members of NATO for a good while. I’m worried that when Ukraine falls, as it will I’m sure, Putin will turn his attention to the Baltic states. If we’re worried now, we’ll be a lot more worried then. We’ll be involved.

Yes

Sorry Vegansrock I misread your post. I haven't seen that either.

vegansrock

I haven't seen the “left wing blaming Ukraine” - where is the evidence? I see Farage and Trump praising Putin.

Where?

The small Baltic states have been members of NATO for a good while. I’m worried that when Ukraine falls, as it will I’m sure, Putin will turn his attention to the Baltic states. If we’re worried now, we’ll be a lot more worried then. We’ll be involved.

I didn’t think anyone was blaming Ukraine. What are they blaming them for? Is it for being interested in joining NATO or the EU?

vegansrock

I haven't seen the “left wing blaming Ukraine” - where is the evidence? I see Farage and Trump praising Putin.

Sorry you are wrong, ex POTUS and Mr. Farage praised President Putin’s strategy not the man, which is a totally different thing.

No doubt there are plenty of military / warfare experts also praising his strategy, let’s face it he has outfoxed the world (except China who knew all along)

Farage and Putin are both grateful for the help they got from Putin in 2016

I haven't seen the “left wing blaming Ukraine” - where is the evidence? I see Farage and Trump praising Putin.

Freya5

Katie59

rubysong

I agree with Jabberwok I think NATO could have made it clear that Ukraine would not join NATO. Former Soviet countries should have taken the Finland approach, (NATO stay out, Russia stay out.) One by one they have been joining, I can see why he felt threatened. Having said that, I think he will now stop at nothing to get Soviet States back. Going via Donbass gave him a way in as they are largely in favour of joining Russia. None of our sanctions will have an effect on him, short of all out war, which I hope won't happen.

It is NATO expansion that caused the problem a neutral Ukraine was not seen as a threat by Russia, it’s US and EU courting them to join has caused the crisis. Finland, an EU member co-exists quite happily bordering Russia despite being encouraged to join NATO over decades.

Ukraine could have enjoyed peaceful neutrality.

If they didn’t wish to stay neutral. Why should Russia dictate to whichever sovereign state that they cannot get protection from NATO, just because they live next door. See all the left wing are victim blaming Ukraine. Disgusted.

What do you mean?

maddyone

^The ridiculous thing is that Putin’s aim of reducing NATO’s sphere of influence will have the completely opposite effect.^

I couldn’t agree more. I’m really quite frightened about what all this will lead to. Putin is clearly quite happy to use nuclear weapons, unless it’s all bluff.

Well we have stood up to Russia before, when our leaders seemed to have more bottle and Khrushchev backed down. But after that they negotiated a mutual withdrawal of military basis from Turkey and Cuba.

It isn’t clear what can be negotiated away in Europe, as Putin will be faced with NATO independent countries.

Putin has problems with the truth as in "we will not invade Ukraine"so hopefully the threat of nuclear weapons is just that, a threat.
I wouldn't trust Putin as far as I could throw an elephant so we are in a dangerous situation.

Katie59

rubysong

I agree with Jabberwok I think NATO could have made it clear that Ukraine would not join NATO. Former Soviet countries should have taken the Finland approach, (NATO stay out, Russia stay out.) One by one they have been joining, I can see why he felt threatened. Having said that, I think he will now stop at nothing to get Soviet States back. Going via Donbass gave him a way in as they are largely in favour of joining Russia. None of our sanctions will have an effect on him, short of all out war, which I hope won't happen.

It is NATO expansion that caused the problem a neutral Ukraine was not seen as a threat by Russia, it’s US and EU courting them to join has caused the crisis. Finland, an EU member co-exists quite happily bordering Russia despite being encouraged to join NATO over decades.

Ukraine could have enjoyed peaceful neutrality.

If they didn’t wish to stay neutral. Why should Russia dictate to whichever sovereign state that they cannot get protection from NATO, just because they live next door. See all the left wing are victim blaming Ukraine. Disgusted.

The ridiculous thing is that Putin’s aim of reducing NATO’s sphere of influence will have the completely opposite effect.

I couldn’t agree more. I’m really quite frightened about what all this will lead to. Putin is clearly quite happy to use nuclear weapons, unless it’s all bluff.

Putin's puppets in the West have been making themselves useful

First we had brexit puppets Nigel Farage and Arron Banks blaming the EU for Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

leftfootforward.org/2022/02/totally-deluded-arron-banks-and-nigel-farage-blame-the-eu-over-putins-aggression

Now we have Donald Trump praising Putin's aggression as 'wonderful' and 'genius'

news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-crisis-donald-trump-praises-putins-aggression-as-wonderful-and-genius-12549418

Kali2

They don't just 'see the West disunited' they worked hard to ensure it was. And to that end supported Brexit all the way.

Oh for goodness sakes, we are one country. There are still 27 countries left in the EU. Do you think we would not support Europe if it was required. We did twice before, EU didn’t exist then, tell us please why you think we wouldn’t now.

He’s not the only one who can use nuclear weapons. Maybe he needs to be made aware of that.

They don't just 'see the West disunited' they worked hard to ensure it was. And to that end supported Brexit all the way.

What seriously worries me is what happens after Putin has taken over Ukraine. I believe he wants to restore the old USSR and that the Baltic countries and eastern europe will be next in his sights( and those are all NATO countries, I believe?). He is a dangerous megalomaniac as was Hitler and sanctions aren't going to stop him. He (and China) see the West as weak and disunited and not willing to put boots on the ground. But if we did...is he really crazy enough to use nuclear weapons?

maddyone

Putin has warned the west that if we interfere we can expect greater consequences than we have ever faced in history. He means he will use nuclear weapons.

The ridiculous thing is that Putin’s aim of reducing NATOs sphere of influence will have the completely opposite effect.

Putin has warned the west that if we interfere we can expect greater consequences than we have ever faced in history. He means he will use nuclear weapons.

GrannyGravy, I support your post (11:10 am). Well said.

I found that chilling & threatening speech that Putin delivered to the world really scary, I feel shaken.

WWM2 is right, Putin is not concerned about economic lose - you can be sure he has already secured his money in "safe" countries. He has a personal history of being a bully and now is attempting to bully those democratic countries around Russia - who are not and never have been a threat to Russia. His sole aim is to restore what was the Soviet Union and gain more power for himself.

Putin doesn’t care about economic lose.

All he cares about is what he perceives as lose of prestige and world military power.

The consequences of this will almost certainly be a greater militarisation if Europe, and with it greater instability.

I think U.K. is pretty important with the financial market and the impact there.

The grim reality is that the U.K. is now forced to watch from the sidelines as the decisions are made in the EU and USA, because their markets are vastly bigger than ours and all the important decisions will be made in the USA and Paris/Berlin axis.