Ukraine

I suspect you’re right marymary62, I hope we avoid nuclear war but can we trust Putin feels the same

We tried peace with Hitler but it didn’t work. If we don’t do something what is to stop Russia taking over the whole world?

25Avalon, that’s the nub isn’t it
It feels like 1938 all over again
Our military reserves are depleted
Putin is committing war crimes amd we / the rest of the world, seem unable to stop him.

25Avalon

We tried peace with Hitler but it didn’t work. If we don’t do something what is to stop Russia taking over the whole world?

It doesn't have a big enough army. Nor, for quite a while, with sanctions biting, will it have enough money to build and re-equip one.

Apparently Russia's GDP is no bigger than Italy's...

Oh, it could nuke a large part of the world, of course, but what would be the point of that?

MaizieD I agree with your question, what woukd be the point (of nuking). But - what’s the point of Putin invading Ukraine, killing civilians and committing war crimes. Of course he denies bombing civilians or Maternity hospitals, it’s the Ukrainians doing that

Putin has stated that there is no point to a world without Russia, and I think we can be sure he wouldn’t think twice about starting a nuclear war if he felt Russia was going to ‘disappear’. This is where we need diplomacy , not Truss in her fur hat telling everyone to go and fight in Ukraine ..... ! Humanity and compassion are not in Putin’s vocabulary but power and negotiating may be . We have had plenty of warning about this and the EU did nothing to prevent dependency on gas /oil from Russia - increased it after the Crimea. It’s been obvious for years what kind of murderous leader he is . Well finally they’ve woken up. Be under no illusion this could just have easily been China taking over Taiwan. Look how economically dependant we are on them. Despite Putin’s use of illegal weapons in Chechenya, Georgia and Syria we looked away. Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, Germany depends on his oil and gas - no wonder he thought he could walk in to Ukraine. He clearly forgot the Ukrainians are every bit as determined to fight back as he is to takeover their country . Is he going to be a cornered rat and bite even harder ? There needs to be a way out. Hopefully the Russians will resolve that themselves .....

Sadly I think he will take Ukraine and possibly Moldova and Odessa too. Hopefully to save face he will say he has achieved his objective and withdraw. He didn't want too much of the old USSR to join the west.
Very sad for those countries as they don't want to live under Putin's regime.

Odessa is a city in Ukraine.

Yes of course. Just thinking it's on his list.

I agree about Moldova. Ukraine is such a big country though it will be hard to maintain an oppressive presence there against a hostile population. It will cost Russia a vast amount.

People trapped in the besieged city of Mariupol are “attacking each other for food”, as resources including water, medicines and fuel become increasingly scarce, aid workers have warned.

Russian forces are desperate to take control of the strategic port, which is home to roughly 400,000 people, and there is little sign that the conflict will soon let up.

There’s a good report on Sky news online, which has experts answering questions with their views. One perspective is that the Russian economy could collapse in weeks as a consequence of the sanctions. That makes the chance of an uprising much more likely within Russia, which would be the best possible outcome for Ukraine. It’s worth reading the posts, because the ‘worst case scenario’ some grans are predicting isn’t what the commentators necessarily suggest may happen.

Ordinary Russians are worried now. By 'ordinary', I mean those who are neither rich nor poor, who have no political influence, but have some savings to lose.

They have left it too late to try to transfer their savings in dollars out of Russia, and putting them into rubles makes them almost worthless.
That's what I am hearing from the (very) few I know there, anyway.

I don't think they blame their own leader for that yet though.

Sadly too many "ordinary Russians"get all their news from state TV - propaganda which they have been subjected to for so many years that they never question it.

That is why we hear reports of mothers in Russia being told the truth of what is happening in Ukraine by their own children living in Ukraine and refusing to believe it.

varian

Sadly too many "ordinary Russians"get all their news from state TV - propaganda which they have been subjected to for so many years that they never question it.

That is why we hear reports of mothers in Russia being told the truth of what is happening in Ukraine by their own children living in Ukraine and refusing to believe it.

And mothers in Russia refusing to believe what they are being told by their adult child living here in the UK too, Varian, or of their other adult child who has just left Russia for another country.

In some ways - thank god for social media via smartphones. Another chip in the wall ....

Casdon

There’s a good report on Sky news online, which has experts answering questions with their views. One perspective is that the Russian economy could collapse in weeks as a consequence of the sanctions. That makes the chance of an uprising much more likely within Russia, which would be the best possible outcome for Ukraine. It’s worth reading the posts, because the ‘worst case scenario’ some grans are predicting isn’t what the commentators necessarily suggest may happen.

Casdon, at 9 p.m. on BBC News there is a programme called 'Context' each night. They can do longer interviews, with people who are very knowledgable and it is very informative.

Tonight, on a panel of three they all thought Ukraine would ultimately win but the question that hung in the air was what Putin would do when he realised he was losing. He cannot afford to lose.

They were all agreed we should ensure we get as much information into Russia as we can. This would give them a reason to rebel against conscription and also help relationships after the war. They were glad more and better weapons are being sent. There was a Ukraine MP. He was still asking for a no-fly zone and he was saying volunteer fighters were arriving from the UK and that gave them heart.

It seems, from what one of the American guests is saying, that there is a very good case for a war crimes trial - if they can catch the people concerned.

Apologies. Although they are naming people they are not tagging them on the screen. This means I am unable to pass them on. I imagine there will be a way to see the programme online on iplayer.

Oz Katerji
@OzKaterji
·
1h
Good morning, this is Kyiv calling.

After a few days of bitterly cold weather and snow, the sun is out and shining down on this beautiful city, which is still free and still standing strong.

We are still here.

We will remain here.

Zelenskyy’s party in Ukraine is a sister party to our Liberal Democrats.

Our MPs know their MPs. We are on the same private messaging groups. We are hearing directly what they need from our country and putting that to our Parliament.

We’ve stopped a Russian-owned tanker from docking in Orkney, thanks to a campaign by Alistair Carmichael MP, which directly led to every port in the country blocking Russian ships.

We have led calls in Parliament urging the Government to move further and faster in sanctioning Putin's cronies and seizing their property and money in the UK. Layla Moran MP has used Parliamentary privilege to name 35 people identified by opposition leader Alexei Navalny’s team as being close allies of Putin, so that these are in the public domain and can be sanctioned.

Every day the images and stories get worse. And people right across the country have been asking: “what can I do to help”, giving money, blankets and medical supplies.

A situation like this should not be party political. We want and need to come together as a country to respond as best we can.

But the British Government is failing us.

We are a kind, decent country that has a proud history of reaching out across borders.

The Liberal Democrats ares making a difference - putting constant pressure on the Government in Parliament and in the media to do better; to move more quickly.

Thanks DaisyAnne, I’ll look out for that programme, it sounds good.

varian

Zelenskyy’s party in Ukraine is a sister party to our Liberal Democrats.

Our MPs know their MPs. We are on the same private messaging groups. We are hearing directly what they need from our country and putting that to our Parliament.

We’ve stopped a Russian-owned tanker from docking in Orkney, thanks to a campaign by Alistair Carmichael MP, which directly led to every port in the country blocking Russian ships.

We have led calls in Parliament urging the Government to move further and faster in sanctioning Putin's cronies and seizing their property and money in the UK. Layla Moran MP has used Parliamentary privilege to name 35 people identified by opposition leader Alexei Navalny’s team as being close allies of Putin, so that these are in the public domain and can be sanctioned.

Every day the images and stories get worse. And people right across the country have been asking: “what can I do to help”, giving money, blankets and medical supplies.

A situation like this should not be party political. We want and need to come together as a country to respond as best we can.

But the British Government is failing us.

We are a kind, decent country that has a proud history of reaching out across borders.

The Liberal Democrats ares making a difference - putting constant pressure on the Government in Parliament and in the media to do better; to move more quickly.

Thank you for this information varian.

DaisyAnne

varian

Zelenskyy’s party in Ukraine is a sister party to our Liberal Democrats.

Our MPs know their MPs. We are on the same private messaging groups. We are hearing directly what they need from our country and putting that to our Parliament.

We’ve stopped a Russian-owned tanker from docking in Orkney, thanks to a campaign by Alistair Carmichael MP, which directly led to every port in the country blocking Russian ships.

We have led calls in Parliament urging the Government to move further and faster in sanctioning Putin's cronies and seizing their property and money in the UK. Layla Moran MP has used Parliamentary privilege to name 35 people identified by opposition leader Alexei Navalny’s team as being close allies of Putin, so that these are in the public domain and can be sanctioned.

Every day the images and stories get worse. And people right across the country have been asking: “what can I do to help”, giving money, blankets and medical supplies.

A situation like this should not be party political. We want and need to come together as a country to respond as best we can.

But the British Government is failing us.

We are a kind, decent country that has a proud history of reaching out across borders.

The Liberal Democrats ares making a difference - putting constant pressure on the Government in Parliament and in the media to do better; to move more quickly.

Thank you for this information varian.

Thanks from me, too.

And from me varian. Isn’t it irritating that the information shared by varian isn’t being discussed on our news media.

Me too ?