Ukraine

I for one do not trust Russia one bit. I think whatever they are given it will not be enough.

I am faintly encouraged by the Crimea/Lugansk/Donetsk suggestion, although I too don't understand the implications.
I am just faintly encouraged that the Kremlin has begun to think of face-saving solutions.

I don't think it's near the starting point so just as well I'm not in a negotiating position.

It's not a good offer, but opening offers never are. I'm maybe being too optimistic, but at least it's a starting point?

I can't see that it is a good offer either.

Give in, admit territories we have invaded belong to us, even if it's illegal and we'll stop killing you.
Just for a couple of years, anyway.

Rather like the offer to risk a humanitarian route to Russia or Belarus or stay and be shelled.

Whitewavemark2

Bit more information. Don’t forget that none of it has been verified, so could be fake, but it does give a glimmer of hope that the talks will get somewhere.

Christo Grozev
@christogrozev
Two persons close to the Russia-Ukraine negotiations (including back channel talks) tell me Russia proposed (1) Zelensky remains pro forma president but Russia appoints Boiko as PM, (2) Ukraine recognizes L/DNR and Crimea, (3) No NATO. Ze told them emphatically no.

I can't see why Ukraine would go for this. Am I missing something. What makes it a good offer, please?

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/seven-years-of-illegal-occupation-of-crimea-by-the-russian-federation-uk-statement

Whitewavemark2

Lucca

Whitewavemark2

This might be the compromise that saves Putins face.

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES || SAYS IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’

Oh I hope something comes of that. However I’m not knowledgeable enough by a long shot to understand the implications . Anyone explain ?

Nor me, but it would mean that if peace was maintained as a result, Ukrainian would lose a relatively small amount of sovereign territory.

I think that is how peace was brought about in Finland after The Winter War.

The Crimean status is not just a dispute between Ukraine and Russia, though is it? I thought many countries still regarded Crimea as an independent state?

I may be wrong.

It could mean a gradual encroachment by Russia into other territories then demanding that they will stop killing innocent people as long as Ukraine and then other countries allow them to keep pushing forward.
Where would it end? A short ceasefire then advance when it all settles down again?
Reclaim the the countries the Soviets and Russian Empire held?

Sounds good Whitewavemark2. I really hope and pray that the Russians will go for this. The Ukranian people are so very brave. I hope I would be as brave as them!

Where did you see that reported, please, Whitewavemark?

On the face of it that sounds very promising. I hope it's true.

Bit more information. Don’t forget that none of it has been verified, so could be fake, but it does give a glimmer of hope that the talks will get somewhere.

Christo Grozev
@christogrozev
Two persons close to the Russia-Ukraine negotiations (including back channel talks) tell me Russia proposed (1) Zelensky remains pro forma president but Russia appoints Boiko as PM, (2) Ukraine recognizes L/DNR and Crimea, (3) No NATO. Ze told them emphatically no.

Lucca

Whitewavemark2

This might be the compromise that saves Putins face.

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES || SAYS IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’

Oh I hope something comes of that. However I’m not knowledgeable enough by a long shot to understand the implications . Anyone explain ?

Nor me, but it would mean that if peace was maintained as a result, Ukrainian would lose a relatively small amount of sovereign territory.

I think that is how peace was brought about in Finland after The Winter War.

Boris is being so generous 2 schemes and he wants to go further, for how many women with children so far?

Fingers crossed

Whitewavemark2

This might be the compromise that saves Putins face.

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES || SAYS IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’

Russia will certainly seek a face saving way out at some point because they are not going to win this war, when that will be is another matter.

GrannyGravy13

Apologies Urmstongran I just saw this on line.

Two twin daughters. Not one twin daughter or three twin daughters?

Whitewavemark2

This might be the compromise that saves Putins face.

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES || SAYS IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’

Oh I hope something comes of that. However I’m not knowledgeable enough by a long shot to understand the implications . Anyone explain ?

Since Friday, Italian financial police have seized $156 million in luxury yachts and villas belonging to Russian oligarchs close to President Putin. The seizures have taken place in some of Italy’s most picturesque destinations, including Sardinia, the Ligurian coast, and Lake Como.

Aside from villas in Tuscany and Como, the superyacht “Lena," belonging to Gennady Timchenko, was taken in the port of San Remo, and the 215-foot “Lady M” owned by Alexei Mordashov, was seized in nearby Imperia. Also seized was the villa of Russian-Uzbek business magnate Alisher Usmanov, located on the Emerald Coast in northern Sardinia, long the playground of the world’s wealthiest. (ABC)

This might be the compromise that saves Putins face.

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES || SAYS IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’

I hope she has a direct hotline to him.
There will be no point in her and their children inheriting a nuclear wasteland.

Yesterday there were reports she was in Siberia. Today she's in Switzerland.

Best not to believe anything like this at the moment.

Apologies Urmstongran I just saw this on line.

The latest from Trump is put Chinese flags on US Bombers and blow the sh** out of Russia. Then US say it wasn’t us, it was China, and the Russians and Chinese fight each other. Sick humour I think.