Opportunity for hiding the bad news

Whitewavemark2

Richard Murphy
@RichardJMurphy
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2m
It seems right now that the government has the political will to continue with legislation to remove our right to protest - putting us in the same position as the people of Russia - but won’t be able to find time to pass laws to rid our country of corrupt companies. Why is that?

Do you think it might be anything to do with donations to the Conservative Party?

Granny1810

For too long students have had it good. I am pleased that they have to pay it back. The loan system is awful.

Students have had to pay back their loans for years!

Why do you think the loan system is awful, if you think students should pay their loans back?

Mummer

In 1973 and 1979 respectively both my cousin's went to university first to Birmingham to read biochemistry, other one to Salford reading quantum physics. First cuz now lives in Austria married into very wealthy family with roofing business after short career teaching in Portugal (where she met hubby). Other cuz earns off the scale as a consultant cyber security boffin after taking computer studies as a side line in case the physics didn't work out!!!!! Rich families? Not one bit of it , mum was a Hoffman presser in clothing factory part time.dad was engineering foreman at heavy engineering company in Manchester. No academia AT ALL! Just very clever kids given the best opportunities by passing to go to grammar school then university. Say what you like but the grammar system delivered pure gold in terms of education to the poorest but brightest kids all over the country , opportunities now scuppered by an absolutely crap state system that holds back those flyers because "everyone is a winner" NO, they're not! I wasn't and turned out ok, so did most mates too, and we never resented for one millisecond the ones who made good because they're still our friends.

No, the grammar school system didn't deliver "pure gold" to the poorest but brightest kids. All research has shown that the majority of children who went to grammar schools were from families with parents (or at least a father) with a professional job. A good comprehensive can deliver exactly the same.

For too long students have had it good. I am pleased that they have to pay it back. The loan system is awful.

The protests in Russia are illegal, they might also be illegal hear the difference is that in Russia they get bashed across the head or hauled into some horrible jail and tortured whereas that does not happen in the UK.

Both DH and I, as well as both our children have done further degrees. For all of them, we had to fund ourselves and in most cases earn our livings as well.

I am not sure it is such a bad thing.

Why should they pay their loans back

Whitewavemark2

Richard Murphy
@RichardJMurphy
·
2m
It seems right now that the government has the political will to continue with legislation to remove our right to protest - putting us in the same position as the people of Russia - but won’t be able to find time to pass laws to rid our country of corrupt companies. Why is that?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

The Tory Party and this Government are not keen to lose Russian funds

My GD, having gained her law degree and got a job, had to pay out £thousands to take her Masters. Living at home, with few online lectures and very little assistance, she has struggled to complete the course. She's waiting for her results, and worried sick that she may have failed. What she had to pay was a complete rip-off.

Perhaps this will stop stupid courses being set up I have worked with so
Many young people who work in call centres after completing obscure degrees and Tbh saw uni time as an excuse ti have fun

My grandson has chosen to apply for apprenticeship instead of going to Uni. He takes his A Levels this year. He is expected to do well despite the fact that his education was disrupted at GCSE level through to A Level by Covid-19. He doesn't think Uni is worth the debt.

I also feel that for degree level education there should be assisted payments for the jobs that are most needed and that anyone qualifying for these type of jobs should sign contracts that they will not take their skills out of the country for at least 10 years after they have used the country's tax system to qualify.

In 1973 and 1979 respectively both my cousin's went to university first to Birmingham to read biochemistry, other one to Salford reading quantum physics. First cuz now lives in Austria married into very wealthy family with roofing business after short career teaching in Portugal (where she met hubby). Other cuz earns off the scale as a consultant cyber security boffin after taking computer studies as a side line in case the physics didn't work out!!!!! Rich families? Not one bit of it , mum was a Hoffman presser in clothing factory part time.dad was engineering foreman at heavy engineering company in Manchester. No academia AT ALL! Just very clever kids given the best opportunities by passing to go to grammar school then university. Say what you like but the grammar system delivered pure gold in terms of education to the poorest but brightest kids all over the country , opportunities now scuppered by an absolutely crap state system that holds back those flyers because "everyone is a winner" NO, they're not! I wasn't and turned out ok, so did most mates too, and we never resented for one millisecond the ones who made good because they're still our friends.

First off I am not defending the new rules per se. I personally wish the taxpayer paid for all degree level study and feel that changing this was a real mistake. However, 4 GCSE passes is a reasonable measure of ‘general’ educational attainment that could be seen as suitably preparing any school pupil for study at a higher level without the essential specialism that always creeps in whenever A level or BTEC vocational study is applied at level 3. Indeed broad Level 2 attainment is a particularly good indicator of the ability to knuckle down and achieve level 5 and higher qualifications. Quite a number of A Level scrapees who do not hold the full hand of four GCSE passes, notably including Maths and English Language, frequently drop out of HE study.

However, omitting this requirement for mature students who can often achieve good results DESPITE dreadful school careers is a wise decision.

Sue450

I am all for kids going to uni or college, but the situation is dire and who says they will get a job of their choice when they finish uni.
My son worked as a Gardner he had 3 guys who had all passed in their chosen subjects at uni but couldn’t get a job.
So there they were working for a agency to earn some money.
Think it would be better if they did an apprenticeship earn as you learn.

Absolutely! The place is knee deep in degrees that are as much use as a chocolate teapot! Even some academic degrees are a millstone, my son was pushed into doing pharmacy against my advice (VERY limited prospects unles you fancy working at Boots or for a massive pharma company as a minion?) And it's been an absolute nightmare explaining why he's looking to work in civil service/banking/whatever he's gone for!! H know does PAT testing, driving length and breadth of country testing appliances in industry!! And her know, it pays more than junior pharm job and more than he got after 10 years with DWP!

maddyone

I don’t have a problem with students paying back their loans. If the time has been extended to ensure this that’s fine. My three all made it a priority to pay their loans back as soon as they left university.

Well I guess they're in well paid jobs then? Not all graduates are paid in X's of 25k the minute they start their first job! Some struggle to get a job full stop so end up doing something completely different and low paid for the first few YEARS . Any prospect of getting a better paid position is now dampened by prospect of any gains being gobbled up by having to repay loan earlier than anticipated. Once trapped in a poorly paid job , life takes over and then the issue of fresh batch of graduates get first dibs as employers always ask " how come you've decided to do (whatever dudjob) for last 2/3/4 years ?" And it's an excuse not to offer on that basis of no experience!! Real life is a total beeatch!

Richard Murphy
@RichardJMurphy
·
2m
It seems right now that the government has the political will to continue with legislation to remove our right to protest - putting us in the same position as the people of Russia - but won’t be able to find time to pass laws to rid our country of corrupt companies. Why is that?

It's a great way to keep the great unwashed out of university. Can't have the masses cluttering up the the hallowed halls.

I am all for kids going to uni or college, but the situation is dire and who says they will get a job of their choice when they finish uni.
My son worked as a Gardner he had 3 guys who had all passed in their chosen subjects at uni but couldn’t get a job.
So there they were working for a agency to earn some money.
Think it would be better if they did an apprenticeship earn as you learn.

The problem with encouraging people to study at 'local' universities is that whereas there are league tables for institutions as a whole, these can mask differences between the quality of courses in individual subjects, so the local one might not be the best for the subject an individual student wants to study. Also, things like options and even core modules vary depending on staffing, so even if a university offers an excellent course in, say, History, it might not have modules in medieval French towns (or whatever), which might be the thing that interests a particular student.

This would mean, as always, that students from wealthy backgrounds will have choices that are denied those from more 'ordinary' families. Also, whereas social life is important to many students, it is, arguably, more important that they mix with people from different backgrounds, and this is less likely if they stay put. Those going to (or staying in) better off areas will make contacts who won't be as likely to go to poorer areas to study. Similarly, many universities work with local companies for placements and research collaboration, which will reduce chances for local students to find work outside of their own area. People wanting to study Art, for instance, would find it far more difficult in an area with few galleries to visit than somewhere with one on every corner.

I think that to some extent it is true that less well-off students do stay at home, but their experience is not really the same as those who go away and use the experience as a bridge between childhood living with parents and self-sufficient adulthood.

Whatever the cost are the students getting value for money?

Tony Blair and his “education, education, education” and putting emphasis on university was a way of reducing the then enormous youth unemployment figures. Blair himself now agrees that was wrong - his son Ewan is now a multi-millionaire having set up a company to match employers offering apprenticeships to those wanting to take them up - ironic hey?

I have always felt that have a skill in your hands and you will never be unemployed. ( O for a decorator who isn’t booked up till the autumn!)

At a local van hire company all the staff were in their early 20s and all had degrees - hope that £50K loan is worth it.

Whatever you do, as a government, repaying student loans will always be hard for those who are not able to get a job after University, and for those who only manage to get fairly poorly paid jobs.

Extending the lenght of time they have to repay the loan is surely only a good thing for those who find it hard to make the repayments. Any who are earning well can chose to repay their loans faster, and I am sure many do.

A good chunk of a student loan is for accommodation away from home when in reality some students could go to a local university and live at home but this wouldn’t be as much fun I’m sure! Spare a thought for the student nurses who have had to work on the front line and pay to do so.

Two of my children have recently been through uni. My eldest chose to go to the local uni (but not the prestigious world re-known one we also have) and did a law degree, then a masters degree also in law. He lived at home, so was supported by me for his living costs. His student debt is the course costs and a smaller loan that covered books and equipment. He owes under £20K in student debt and has carried on getting his solicitor law qualifications whilst holding down good jobs earning a decent wage and has now been able to get on the housing ladder etc... The youngest wanted to go away to Warwick uni, he did a history & politics degree. He lived in student digs for the 3 years and racked up over £50K in student debt. Thanks to covid he couldn't get on any graduate schemes after graduating and has only just secured a fairly decent starter job, but that is temporary. It will get him further experience, so hopefully he will be able to progress from there. My point is, wouldn't a lot of our poorer kids be better off minimising their debt by staying at home and going to their local uni's instead of paying thousands to landlords for student digs just to be away from home. You can still socialise etc without these huge accommodation costs. Is the extra £25k plus it costs for this over the 3 years really worth that? I have no issue in them repaying their debt if they earn enough, but there are a lot going to uni that due to course choices etc..aren't going to get anything worthwhile out of it for the debt they are incurring, they might be better looking at apprenticeships or other forms of training that will give them better life chances, especially those with lower A level grades.

All PhDs are in niche subject areas, as they are supposed to add to the sum of existing knowledge. People can't get funding for topics that have been studied before unless they have a different slant, or are expecting to make a discovery of some kind.

I find it worrying that (some) people seem to see the Arts as inferior in some way, and don't value their contribution to society - without them we are far poorer as a society. I also think it is worrying that this government want to cut funding to the Arts, which will result in only those from wealthy backgrounds being the storytellers and culture makers of the future. It is, I think, vital that the stories of 'ordinary' people are told, too, and that they have input into the ways in which they are portrayed on the media.

4akkweknow the ‘PhD in Vampires’ is most likely to be awarded from a Department of Literature.
Their thesis would be written about the portrayal of vampires and it’s use as a metaphor throughout history.

It sounds very interesting!