Opportunity for hiding the bad news

I don’t have a problem with students paying back their loans. If the time has been extended to ensure this that’s fine. My three all made it a priority to pay their loans back as soon as they left university.

Martin Lewis devoted all of his programme to this subject last night.

I agree that it's sometimes possible to hide bad news behind worse, and it's not 'a good thing'. However, the difficulties faced by students here, in a safe and secure environment pale into nothing compared with the problems facing young people in Ukraine - and the knock-on effects on the rest of the world.

Incidentally, I don't like the system of student loans anyway.

Watching the brave souls in Russia protesting about the invasion by Putin
These anti-war demonstrations in Russia would be illegal in the UK under the proposed new Police and Crime Bill.

Never forget that our democracy and freedom to criticise is also threat.

I'm another who would like to see education free for everyone; but given that fees seem here to stay, I am more concerned about the way the latest proposals are screening out those without GCSEs in English and Maths, even when they want to study entirely different subjects. That seems to discriminate against dyslexics and those with dyscalculia, who wouldn't need either to study many subjects. Obviously, those who want to study Literature or Engineering should be expected to have a basic grounding in one or the other, but why should a talented musician, for instance, (who may have high grades at A level in other subjects) be denied the chance to shine because they didn't pass an exam at the age of 16?

Higher Education is an important source of social mobility, and for a long time there has been a trend for those who benefited from the previous expansion of opportunity (eg free grammar schools and student grants) to cling to their sense of elitism and find ways to disparage the achievements of the next batch of beneficiaries. Simply having a degree is no longer a guarantee of a management or professional role, and I'm far from convinced that it should ever have been. I am a firm believer in education for education's sake, rather than as a passport to a privileged lifestyle, and think that for business and other workplaces to succeed it is important that competition for jobs and promotion should be based on ability rather than the old system which valued qualifications gained at the age of 21 when most of the population were denied to opportunity to study for them. I would rather see those opportunities extended to all, so that we have a genuine meritocracy, rather than a system based on perpetuated privilege.

Pegging the payment of student loans to wages at least means that those who benefit most from education pay back more, and factors in other advantages such as 'old boys' networks and nepotism. If those who continue to earn lower salaries may not pay it all back, at least the educational level of the population is raised, which can only benefit everyone. Keeping the number of graduates deliberately low would mean that fewer people are taught to understand things like how to differentiate between sources of information, how to produce things such as art and literature, and so on. That's why dictators traditionally dislike 'intellectuals' - they are less easy to control.

maddyone

I don’t have a problem with students paying back their loans. If the time has been extended to ensure this that’s fine. My three all made it a priority to pay their loans back as soon as they left university.

I really don't think you understand the current situation. These days, students couldn't possibly pay back their loans as soon as they leave university, unless the walk into jobs paying about £100k a year.

The average loan is over £50k and interest accrues from the moment the loan is taken out.

Franbern

Whilst everyone and the whole of news programmes are covering the tragedy unfolding in Ukraine, the UK government is still pushing ahead with some very unsavoury changes..
Not the least of these are the proposed changes for student loans to take place as from 2023/24.

This would mean that ex-students will start having to pay back these loans when they are earning £22,00 pa (as opposed to the current £24,000) AND the loan will now be extended for paying back for 40 years (now just 30 years).

This will have a big effect on poorer students, who take out the larger loans in order to see them through the three or four years of their degrees.

At present around 30% of loans are paid back fully over the thirty years (mainly due to low earnings of those graduates) - the changes are expected to make this 60%.

This is hardly being mentioned on any news programmes as it appears as if these services can only ever cover one item a day - a few weeks ago that was covid, now it is Ukraine.

Actually it’s 25000 as opposed to the present 2400- it was on the main news last night, and have seen it on the internet news this morning.

Extending the time to repay just means they have to pay for longer before the balance is written off. It will cost graduates many thousands more.

No Freya. The current threshold is £27,295.

I think you have got the figures wrong.
According to Martin Lewis last night, the repayment of the loan starts when the young person is earning £25,000 not £22,000 as you said.

I’m fully in favour of this, and I hope it will deter youngsters from enrolling on ‘hobby type’
courses which gives them virtually no chance of employment once they have graduated.

Obviously there are many careers where a degree in the subject is essential but there are too many where that is absolutely not the case.

The country is crying out for skilled people in , for instance, the building trade, and this shortage will continue if youngsters people are continually pushed into a useless degree course.

A builder we use who looks after our properties has had a hell of a job trying to find a suitable apprentice to train up.
He has his own business and is offering a fantastic opportunity to a lad (or lass I guess I should say!) but so many have been unsuitable for a variety of reasons.

Doodledog the GCSE thing really concerns me too.

I’m thinking of a very gifted Dr of physics that I knew. He now works for the Met Office.

There is absolutely no way that he could have passed GSCE English.

Meanwhile I have a Masters in an Arts subject, but I have dyscalculia. I only scraped by with my Maths after failing it twice because my parents paid for a private tutor.

I think that this is definitely more worrying than the loan business.

I’m glad that you mentioned it instead of me as you are obviously more knowledgeable!

Unless you wait a certain amount of time and declare yourself bankrupt. The amount students are having to pay back is horrific, and often for a Mickey Mouse degree. The whole system needs an overhaul. Universities seem to be just about getting money.

Doodledog The problem with the repayments is that the highest earners will pay back less because of the interest charged.

Extending the time to repay to 40 years means that graduates will pay more. In effect, it's a graduate tax - and a very unfair one.

25Avalon

Unless you wait a certain amount of time and declare yourself bankrupt. The amount students are having to pay back is horrific, and often for a Mickey Mouse degree. The whole system needs an overhaul. Universities seem to be just about getting money.

Or find a rich spouse and don't bother working

Thinking still about the GCSE thing still. There is absolutely no rationale for it.
It will definitely penalise certain sectors, especially those with various challenges.
That must be the thinking behind it.

Every new decision about of student loans results in different rules for repayment and it makes me very cross indeed.

What troubles me about student loans is the number of people who study a subject that will never earn them a salary which will require them to pay back a penny. In addition to in effect getting a free university education they may well end up relying on benefits to bolster their low earnings.
I will now don my helmet and flak jacket whilst beating a hasty retreat.

I am more concerned about the way the latest proposals are screening out those without GCSEs in English and Maths

I thought it was always the rule that anyone applying for a university place had to have a pass in GCSE English and Maths?
Or was it just for BEd students?

Germanshepherdsmum

What troubles me about student loans is the number of people who study a subject that will never earn them a salary which will require them to pay back a penny. In addition to in effect getting a free university education they may well end up relying on benefits to bolster their low earnings.
I will now don my helmet and flak jacket whilst beating a hasty retreat.

What percentage of people do you estimate is involved?

Callistemon21

^I am more concerned about the way the latest proposals are screening out those without GCSEs in English and Maths^

I thought it was always the rule that anyone applying for a university place had to have a pass in GCSE English and Maths?
Or was it just for BEd students?

No, it was the case. Five GCSE passes, including Maths and English and two A levels (any grade).

I think it changed when the cap was removed on the numbers of students universities could take.

In practice, I doubt whether there are many students who don't have Maths and English GCSE grade 4. It's honestly not a very high level.

Callistemon yes, just teaching degrees including PGCEs.
When I did mine a few years back, you also had to have a GCSE in a science subject to do a Primary one.
I taught myself in four months and got an A in Biology despite having a panic attack so bad that it rendered me blind!
It was my proudest achievement

No, it wasn't just teaching degrees. It used to be the rule for all degrees.

I’m not arguing growstuff, but I was sure that it wasn’t the case in the early 90s.
I’m probably wrong though!

growstuff

No Freya. The current threshold is £27,295.

Yes it is, but it was stated in the post the new starting point for paying back will be at 22,000 . Martin Lewis says it will be 25,000 before paying back
The Government has announced sweeping changes to the student loan system in England that will drastically increase the cost of education for those attending university, including lowering the repayment threshold to £25,000 a year and increasing the length of time over which graduates repay their loans by 10 years.