If we find there are war crimes happening ...

All my life I have been a great supporter of the UN but I have just realised that there is a serious flaw in the UN constitution in that no member of the Security Council can be expelled from the Security Council without a unanimous vote of the members of the Security Council.

How was that clause ever approved?

It is obvious that a rogue member of the Security Council, like Russia, is never going to vote to expel itself.

Talk now that the Russians are going to lay siege to Kyiv.

Surely we won’t sit by and let people starve?

DaisyAnne war crimes are specific acts that break the Geneva onvention or other ruleslaid down to limit the horrors of war.

Quite a number of Serbian generals and senior politicians have been convicted of crimes like genocide and using chemical weapons and will be spending the rest f their lives in prison.

Charles Taylor, once President if Liberia is also serving a life sentence for war crimes. There are others in Syria and elsewhere who have indictments against them, but have yet to be captured and tried . In the meanwhile they live a hole in the corner life, in hiding or knowing that their freedom is dependent on staying in the country they are in and there being no change of regime.

Not perfect, but what is, but an attenpt to dela with war-crimes and it has been successful in a number of cases.

I have no worries whatsoever about Ukraine leading to WW3. ...... ah, well that's OK then. We can tell the international community to relax. Stand down chaps - all is well!

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You appeared anxious.

We all deal with things differently, and whereas some people can not worry about things they can't control, it is that very loss of control that worries others.

There is no wrong or right here - we are who we are.

Back to something other than GSM fretting about me.

Apparently Kyiv will probably be surrounded in the next 24 hours. The Russians are well versed in "liberating" cities. Sadly it seems to leave them in rubble when they do.

Try re-reading (if you have actually read it before) my post-Tue 01-Mar-22 16:04:18 GSM. You are the one who is insisting "worry" is involved, not me.

To clarify, I feel I am more likely to die because of Johnson's governments' policies at home than I am from a Putin bomb.

Of course not and I didn’t say they were. But worry about something you have no control over is, as I said.

I have never believed that learning and knowledge are futile GSM.

DaisyAnne War crimes are usually tried after the war finishes. It's a long and convoluted process which takes years and sometimes isn't at all successful. The offenders often become heroes. War crimes in the Balkan wars are still controversial balkaninsight.com/2021/12/30/serbia-war-criminals-convicted-in-the-hague-glorified-in-belgrade/
I suppose the best you can say is it is better than nothing. But world leaders are seldom brought to trial. Many think Tony Blair should have faced a court for his part in the illegal Iraq war.

I just don’t worry about things I have no control over Daisy. Doesn’t mean they don’t interest me but on a personal level worry is futile and destructive.

MerylStreep

DaisyAnne
Did you see Jens Stoltenberg talking from Tallinn this afternoon ?
He is adamant that NATO is not going into Ukraine.

Please don't think I want this to have to happen. However, I do feel the need to understand how it could happen. As for Jes Stoltenberg - and Johnson, who was saying much the same thing - how many politicians have you seen hold and voice their most adamant view - just before they change their mind.

I am just trying to be aware what actions might make that change happen.

Going back to the early posts, I don't think I mistimed my question. There is a lot of discussion about this today. Not everyone is saying "never" even if they are saying "no" at the moment.

DaisyAnne
Did you see Jens Stoltenberg talking from Tallinn this afternoon ?
He is adamant that NATO is not going into Ukraine.

I'm not keen on Politico's credentials CvD66 so I will pass on that. Maybe I'll just listen to a Trump speech to get the flavour. I will follow up with a chat with my US family though and check out that I am not damning them out of hand.

Germanshepherdsmum

Please stop worrying DaisyAnne. It will do you no good and it will change nothing. I have no worries whatsoever about Ukraine leading to WW3.

I'm not actually worrying GSM. I'm enquiring in order to enhance my fairly sketchy knowledge.

I am glad you are so sure that you know exactly what will happen. It must be a comfort (if you were worrying, that is).

GrannyGravy13

War crimes have already been committed, cluster bombs are against the law (Geneva Convention I think) , and there is also some probable damming evidence of a thermobaric explosion over night in if I remember correctly Peace Square.

On a more prosaic note, I read that it's a war crime to continue attacks while peace negotiations are going on. They definitely did that.

Perhaps more people should read this fascinating article by Fiona Hill, the British/American former official at the US National Security Council specialising in Russian and European affairs, who sat in on meetings between Putin & Trump . She makes it clear WW 111 has been rumbling on since 2014. Her explanations about Putin's ambitions and his current nuclear actions (not always bombs after all) give us ALL cause for anxiety: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

Please stop worrying DaisyAnne. It will do you no good and it will change nothing. I have no worries whatsoever about Ukraine leading to WW3.

DaisyAnne

... what difference would this make?

I caught an interview where they said the International court was going to investigate possible war crimes in Ukraine over the attacks on civilians.

Does anyone know what this would mean? Would it, for instance, mean we could have a no-fly zone? Or is it that we are not having a no-fly zone simply for our personal safety.

I know none of us is an expert in this area but perhaps someone has seen/heard other reports.

If we instigate a no fly zone, it will mean the start of WW3. I would imagine no one wants that, do we. MP Bob Seely, ex army, and Psaki had already re iterated that it would be tantamount to declaring war on Russia.
www.businessinsider.com/psaki-rules-out-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine-2022-2?op=1&r=US&IR=T

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne if there were to be a no fly zone put in place over Ukraine, if Russian aircraft were then to enter the no fly zone and consequently be shot down by forces other than Ukrainian it is tantamount to NATO and/or third parties declaring war with Russia.

This is a situation that no one in their right minds should even consider, the consequences are unthinkable…

I have heard that argument GG13. What I don't know is if it is precisely true.

I'm afraid we may have to think the unthinkable before all this is over. Currently I am just asking questions. It seems these questions are being asked by many people other than me. I also think we have to accept that we may reach the point where Putin leaves us no choice other than to be at war with Russia.