1n 1933 Stalin starved to death 4-7 million people in Ukraine.

Mamardoit

Sorry the thread is really nothing about what the British did. I didn't know what happened in the Ukraine in 1933.

No, it isn't but a predictable attack on the English by the usual poster. Never the British, Marmadoit who we might have known had Irish ancestry!

Sorry the thread is really nothing about what the British did. I didn't know what happened in the Ukraine in 1933.

paddyann54

Well they learned from a master! Westminster starved the Irish ,all the while they exported food FROM Ireland while people died.Then at least a million left for foreign lands,my own ancestors amongst them leaving their dead children buried in unmarked graves .
Churchill was a party to the Indian famine I believe , though its always simpler to think its only some other OTHER ..FOREIGN nation who does this ,sadly you need to look no further than Westminster .Terribull I had no idea WM were communists

Do give over!

Should I still hate the Italians because Romans took my ancestors into slavery and fed some of them to lions.

Or the French maybe for the Harrying of the north.

There are countless examples of truly terrible things happening in the past. The PAST we can do sod all about.

Listening to Radio 4 , I learned (although should have known already) that starvation has long been “used” as a political means of subjugation and yes, the artificially engineered “famine” of 1932/3 was given as a prime example.
God knows there are enough “natural” instances of famine in the world, but to artificially create conditions of starvation is about as low as you can go.

Don’t even the Russians remember what Stalin was responsible for?

Thank you M0nica, I'd never been aware of this before and am grateful that you've posted the links so that I could read about it. Photographs 5, 6 & 7 make me weep.

Yes, but I worry about phrases such as "terrible things that Russia has done to them in the past" sound as if the things were done by the whole of Russia, not just Stalin and his acolytes. I understand what you are saying, but I just think we should be a bit careful. There was a remark on another thread about the design of the Russian flag, that I also thought was a bit concerning. This doesn't mean that I don't understand why Ukraine wants to keep it's own sovereignty.

Thank you for reminding us and for the details M0nica. All extremes seems to cause their own holocaust, don't they.

Ilovecheese and the difference between Stalin and Putin is? I do not think anyone is blaming the Russian people, we are all clear that the problem is Putin.

Ilovecheese

I knew this already about Stalin, but I don't think we should be using it to demonise Russia. The Russian people are just like us, they didn't want this invasion any more than we did. This is down to one megalomaniac man and his cronies, not a whole nation.

i agree

Aveline That is the point I was making, that if Johnson tried to insist that Scotland was part of England, as distinct from being part of the United Kingdom. But it is a way of explaining the situation vis-a-vis Russia and the Ukraine. Ukraine may have been part of the Soviet Unon, but it is not part of the entity that is Russia and Putin is deluding himself when he thinks it is.

Thanks goodness we still have a United Kingdom.

RT relentlessly promoted Nigel Farage to help achieve Brexit because Russia wanted to destabilise the EU.

RT has also relentlessly promoted Alex Salmond in the hope of helping to break up the UK.

It has taken the invasion of Ukraine for Salmond to decide to part company with his Russian sponsors.

Scotland isn't part of England, it's part of the United Kingdom. The name says it all.

Cannot bear to even think about it.

I am half Irish, which is of course, irrelevant. I didn't think this thread would become a competitive famine thread.

I was highlighting this event because it feeds into why Ukraine is doing what it is doing now. Putin may have this desire to restore a Greater Russia, but he forgets that Ukraine was only fully incorporated into Russia in 1764 and the Ukrainians have always seen themselves as a separate nation.

Putin seeing it as part of Russia is a bit like Boris Johnson seeing Scotland as part of England, one for paddyanne to appreciate.

But the point is, and we often say, the Ukraine has no reason to love or trust Russia and Putin is deluded when he thinks he can again make it part of Russia.

D'ya know PADDY ANN I'm looking further than WM way beyond there there's another FOREIGN nation, DENMARK, they were really horrid to us here in the 9th century, WHERE WAS THEIR HYGEE THEN did we ever get an apology? NO WE DIDN'T!!!! OK so we got "The Killing" and "Borgen" but what's a few tv series, it doesn't offset all the rape and pillag IT'S SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH!

Nobody has mentioned Pol Pot in Cambodia, or King Leopoldo in Congo or Ruanda and many other genocides all in the 20th century positively medieval were not civilized at all.

TerriBull

Yes PaddyAnn many of us here in ENGLAND, me included have Irish ancestors that happened to it's not just you YOU KNOW!

My husband's ancestors too. We can trace those who escaped to England. The fate of those left behind is, and I think always will be, unknown.
'And those there be that have no memorial'.

I knew this already about Stalin, but I don't think we should be using it to demonise Russia. The Russian people are just like us, they didn't want this invasion any more than we did. This is down to one megalomaniac man and his cronies, not a whole nation.

Yes PaddyAnn many of us here in ENGLAND, me included have Irish ancestors that happened to it's not just you YOU KNOW!

Well they learned from a master! Westminster starved the Irish ,all the while they exported food FROM Ireland while people died.Then at least a million left for foreign lands,my own ancestors amongst them leaving their dead children buried in unmarked graves .
Churchill was a party to the Indian famine I believe , though its always simpler to think its only some other OTHER ..FOREIGN nation who does this ,sadly you need to look no further than Westminster .Terribull I had no idea WM were communists

Mao Tse Tung announced China’s ‘Great Leap Forward’ in 1959. It lasted 3 years.
50,000,000 (yes, 50 million) of his own people starved to death in that experiment.

Communism is a crime against humanity.
“Some pigs are more equal than others”.

Putin admires Stalin, so of course anything is possible

Yes, I had heard of it and read about it again the other day.

Starvation is yet another weapon of war.

Collectivisation was definitely a factor. That awful scenario has played out in a number of Communist countries, I believe Mao Tse Tung starved that number many times over. More recently, Venezuela, Zimbabwe. What is it about Communism that attracts people who don't have the misfortune to live under those regimes I wonder

Wow, in my ignorance, I knew nothing of that. Appalling.