Gransnet forums

News & politics

So what if Trump were still in power?

(76 Posts)
Chestnut Sat 12-Mar-22 10:14:06

Would Putin have invaded at all, knowing the USA had someone equally as crazy? In a screwball sort of way there was a balance of power, with Kim Jon-un, Putin and Trump all just as nuts as each other. They all acted like a nuclear deterrent to each other. And don’t forget Trump did make an effort to court more friendly terms with these two.

I can’t help thinking Putin would never have invaded under Trump’s watch. If he had, then Trump would have got in there and negotiated an outcome straight away, he was not a ditherer, he got things done. Whatever you think of him he was a powerful force.

So where would we be now if Trump were still in power?

Germanshepherdsmum Sat 12-Mar-22 10:18:35

I think there's something in what you say, much as I loathed Trump.

Oopsadaisy1 Sat 12-Mar-22 10:19:39

I’m not sure whether he could have negotiated something that the people of Ukraine would accept.
I have visions of Trump tweeting/ranting that he will press the Nuclear button, would that have deterred Putin?
I wonder.

FannyCornforth Sat 12-Mar-22 10:21:30

Germanshepherdsmum

I think there's something in what you say, much as I loathed Trump.

Same here.
It’s an interesting argument

Oopsadaisy1 Sat 12-Mar-22 10:24:23

He might get back into power, so we will see.

Urmstongran Sat 12-Mar-22 10:30:16

We will never know.
Shame America voted for ‘anyone but Trump’. In my opinion.

FannyCornforth Sat 12-Mar-22 10:50:38

You know, this isn’t a razor sharp insight from me, but every time I hear Biden speak, I just cringe.
His delivery and diction are just awful.
Biden could be giving the most brilliant and important speech; but I can’t get past his monotonous slurring drone.

volver Sat 12-Mar-22 10:54:33

eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/30/trump-impeachment-blackmail-extortion-conspiracy-column/4612952002/

How much of our souls do you think we should pawn off to strong man politicians?

Casdon Sat 12-Mar-22 10:55:02

I think quite the opposite. Gung ho politics would have ruled, and a rapidly escalating world war. None of the ones mentioned have any insight, or compassion for innocent civilian populations. Putin will ultimately lose this war, for precisely the reason that most of the rest of the world is led by cautious and intelligent leaders.

eazybee Sat 12-Mar-22 11:15:14

Putin is a bully; Trump is a bully.
I think both recognised that in each other, and the fact is, Putin did not invade Ukraine whilst Trump was a presence in NATO.

Casdon Sat 12-Mar-22 11:22:15

Two and two don’t make five easybee.

MaizieD Sat 12-Mar-22 11:27:26

I don't think that Trump would have given two hoots about Putin invading an independent sovereign nation on the borders of Russia. I don't think he cared much about NATO apart from complaining that other countries weren't paying as much as the US towards it. Didn't he threaten to pull out?

He was in hoc to Russia anyway with huge Russian loans.

I think he would just have sat back and let Russia do it.

HolySox Sat 12-Mar-22 11:33:34

Wasn't Trump all about America first, sod the rest of us. For instance, didn't he initiate the withdrawal from Afghanistan and we can all see how that ended.
Can't remember - what was his attitude towards NATO?

Grandmabatty Sat 12-Mar-22 11:37:22

I'm heartily glad Trump isn't in charge. For all we know,he would be sending US troops to support Putin. Fanny Boden has a very bad stammer and the monotone is an attempt to control that.

FannyCornforth Sat 12-Mar-22 11:48:39

Oh I didn’t know that Grandmabatty, thank you

Both my dad and DH are ex-stammerers (I wonder if there is a connection 🤔) so I should have shown a bit more awareness.

It still gets on my wick though !

Chestnut Sat 12-Mar-22 11:48:53

Grandmabatty I don't think for a minute Trump would be supporting Putin. He would have wanted to march in centre stage and try to negotiate. How that would have gone is anyone's guess, but Putin would have been wary of Trump there's no doubt.

Spinnaker Sat 12-Mar-22 11:52:29

Agree with everything you've said Chestnut

In a strange way, love him or loathe him Trump was a good deterrent to Putin.

MaizieD Sat 12-Mar-22 11:53:17

This is interesting...

...interview with Mother Jones this week, Bolton, who was Trump’s national security adviser from 2018 to 2019,

By this point, Putin had for years been backing pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine who were fighting government troops and Ukrainian militias.


Bolton said that he believes Trump intended to pull out of NATO and blow up the alliance, if he were reelected: “Trump, I think, fundamentally didn’t like the NATO alliance.” Trump had pushed the NATO countries to increase their military spending “not to strengthen NATO but because he fundamentally believed nobody would do it.”

(Video of the full interview on the linked page)

www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/john-bolton-donald-trump-ukraine-russia-putin/

MaizieD Sat 12-Mar-22 11:56:21

Oh, sorry, first quote was out of context. Bolton made the point that Trump had taken no interest in Ukraine when Putin was supporting the separatists.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 12-Mar-22 12:23:01

The OP couldn’t be further from the truth.

Trump was impeached because he tried to blackmail Zelensky into providing false narratives about the Democratic Party.

He did so by attempting to stop payment to Ukraine by the USA for military needs.

Trump couldn’t care less about Europe and the balance of power. He is only interesting in its transactional value.

Chestnut Sat 12-Mar-22 12:56:13

So where would we be now if Trump were still in power, WWM2?

Whitewavemark2 Sat 12-Mar-22 13:07:12

In exactly the same position.

Except that Trump would be very luke warm about supporting NATO. thereby giving Putin greater support, in his invasion.

Chestnut Sat 12-Mar-22 13:54:43

Well I don't think Putin would have invaded with Trump in the picture.

I think Trump wanted to keep his enemies close, which is why he made quite friendly gestures towards them. Didn't he say some nice things about Putin? Doesn't mean he actually meant them, but it might have played to Putin's ego. Being friendly towards your enemies is surely safer than antagonising them.

BlueBalou Sat 12-Mar-22 13:57:47

MaizieD

I don't think that Trump would have given two hoots about Putin invading an independent sovereign nation on the borders of Russia. I don't think he cared much about NATO apart from complaining that other countries weren't paying as much as the US towards it. Didn't he threaten to pull out?

He was in hoc to Russia anyway with huge Russian loans.

I think he would just have sat back and let Russia do it.

My feelings too.
He was sucking up to Putin and Kim Jong-un when it suited him.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 12-Mar-22 13:59:21

Chestnut

Well I don't think Putin would have invaded with Trump in the picture.

I think Trump wanted to keep his enemies close, which is why he made quite friendly gestures towards them. Didn't he say some nice things about Putin? Doesn't mean he actually meant them, but it might have played to Putin's ego. Being friendly towards your enemies is surely safer than antagonising them.

How has the USA antagonised Putin since Trumps demise?

Saying nice things about Putin means zero as far as his strategy is concerned. In fact it would almost certainly have encouraged him in his invasion.

Remember Trump isn’t interested in Europe only insofar of its transactional value.

Nothing Trump did or said gave cause of concern to Putin. Rather the reverse.