So what if Trump were still in power?

Laugh away.

We'll see.

This person doesn't inhabit a small world, don't be so dismissive.

Good theory, Chestnut. Perhaps Putin is testing Biden to see how far he'll go, which he might not have dared with Trump in power.

But we'll never know, will we?

Never underestimate Farage or the stupidity of those who would vote for him. Yes, he is not a mass murderer, but he is a toxic catalyst.

Ah, the argument that rests on an ad hominem attack. Best we ignore that, I think.

I did put Farage with Johnson as in Putin, Trump and Johnson and Farage. The pressure Farage has put on Johnson from time to time has affected his decisions.

The reason I believe them to be evil is they are all prepared to destroy western democracy to have ultimate power. I have never been very keen on dictators wherever they exist.

Sorry, the quote was there but now it gone! My last post was in reply to Chestnut Sun 13-Mar-22 15:38:34

The reason I believe them to be evil is that they are all prepared to destroy western
democracy to have ultimate power.

You are perfectly entitled to hold that view, but I believe the only one actually prepared to destroy democracy is Putin. He’s doing it now.
Trump makes a lot of noise but isn’t even in power now (hopefully never will be again.)
Farage also makes a lot of noise but has no power.
Johnson is in power, but has made it clear that that we will not be involved, other than sending aid and arms, in Putin’s war.
NATO holds the power. It remains to be seen what NATO will do and that will depend on whether or not Putin crosses certain lines such as an attack on a NATO country.

At this moment in time Putin holds all the cards. Let’s hope he doesn’t play them.

I think that some of you have misunderstood the relationship between Trump and Putin. The latter being the cleverer of the two.

In 1992 Trump had nearly $1billion in personal debt with the US banks. They subsequently declined to deal with him.

In the 1990's Trump's companies filed for bankruptcy 3 times.

In 1999 construction on Trump Towers started, financed by 2 German banks, one of which was Deutsche Bank.

Trump eventually realised that he wasn't that good at the construction business but that he could sell his brand. Well heeled Americans wouldn't go for it but newly Russians would.

You can read more about Trump's ties with Russia on "Foreign Policy" on the following link

foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/

You don't think that Trump is prepared to destroy democracy?

What happened on 6th January 2021 in the US? Backed by who?

Who has refused to accept the result of the 2020 US presidential election and is still spinning it as being fraudulent?

Who attempted voter suppression in the US?

And Johnson?

Voter suppression by requiring ID with no credible evidence for fraud?

Rushing bills through parliament with hardly any time allowed for scrutiny by MPs?

Bringing in repressive anti-demonstration legislation?

Lying so frequently as to confuse the electorate as to what is 'true' and what is not?

Threatening to hobble the judiciary?

I’m not too sure tbh - didn’t trump come out and applaud putin for invading? ?

Donald Trump has long admired Vladimir Putin who, evidence shows, personally authorized a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Trump in the 2016 US presidential election. Believing that a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, Russia’s spy agencies were ordered to use “all possible force” to ensure Trump’s victory.

Again in the 2020 election, according to a recently unclassified report by the US office of the Director of National Intelligence, Putin authorized “influence operations” aimed at “supporting Trump” and “denigrating President Biden’s candidacy”.

Presumably Putin supported Trump in 2016 and in 2020 in part because of Trump’s disdain for Nato. As president, Trump did all he could to undermine the organization, even suggesting the US should withdraw from it. Is it pure coincidence that once Trump was out of office and Nato remained intact, Putin attacked Ukraine?

Defending democracy and standing up against authoritarian neo-fascism requires courage. In 2019, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, refused Trump’s demand for help in rigging the 2020 election in the United States, even after Trump threatened to withhold money Congress had appropriated to help Ukraine resist Russian expansion.

Today, Zelenskiy won’t be bullied by Putin. He turned down America’s offer to evacuate him, saying: “I need ammunition, not a ride.”

Zelenskiy’s courage in the face of overwhelming brute force has fortified Ukrainians now defending their country against invaders.

Contrast this with the toadies at the Republican National Committee who in February censured Republican representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois for participating in Congress’s select committee investigating the events of 6 January, and who called the attack on the Capitol “legitimate political discourse”.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/republican-party-trump-putin

Trump makes a lot of noise but isn’t even in power now (hopefully never will be again.)

I do wonder how you can form that view; what do you base it on?

Trump fermented a coup. He also attempted to undermine the legal system and turn it on US democracy (rather like our own "Dear Leader" in the UK) to stay in power. He has attempted voter suppression (rather like our own "Dear Leader). He may not be in power currently but he is working on the next election and the destruction of democracy loudly and clearly.

So, do tell me where your "knowledge" to the contrary comes from.

Is it typically British, do you think, not to mind your democracy being destroyed as long as there are no guns or obvious deaths?

I don't think most British people understand the definition of democracy = rule by the majority of the people.

Well here we have Trump's own answer to the question.
Interview with trump
Quote:
He also claimed he would threaten Russia with nuclear submarines if he were still president, and would tell Vladimir Putin 'we'll be coasting back and forth up and down your coast.'

That doesn't mean he would use them of course, but he says he would threaten him with nuclear.

If Putin had his way Trump might still be Potus and it just does not bear thinking what the results might have been

20:59varian

If Putin had his way Trump might still be Potus and it just does not bear thinking what the results might have been

What in your opinion could be worse than the war in Ukraine?

World War III.

Next question?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

????

Oh, I'm crushed. ????

In spite of presiding over the economic basket case that is the Russian economy, Putin had great success in 2014 when his annexation of Crimea was largely unchallenged by the west.

Then in 2016 his aim to destabise the west by engineering a leave majority in the UK referendum was achieved thanks to the on line onslaught of his propaganda and the work of his pa,id puppets. Brexit was a huge achievement for Putin.

This encouraged his support of Trump and unbelievably he exploited the US system of FPTP so that Putin's candidate Trump was elected Potus with 3 million less votes than Hillary Clinton.

Since then he has possibly tried and failed to make further advances in his aim of destroying the unity of the west and has become more and more frustrated.

Sending a couple of "tourists" to Salisbury was just a gesture to show what he could get away with but he cannot ever be allowed to het away with what he is doing to Ukraine.

He's an erratic, ignorant, scary narcissist. I would be VERY frightened if he was still president here. His initial comments:

“I said, ‘This is genius,’” the ex-president said on a right-wing podcast. “Putin declared a big portion of … Ukraine … as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. … I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy…”

and later: Trump again called Putin “smart” and added that the member states of NATO, on the other hand, “are not so smart. They’re looking the opposite of smart.”

More of his quotes:

In the tapes recorded with Trump for Bob Woodward's book, Trump said he gets along “very well” with Turkish strongman Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, adding that he’s “not supposed to” have a good relationship with him because “everyone says what a horrible guy, but for me it works out good.”

Trump said of his relationships with dictators, “the tougher and meaner they are, the better I get along with them,” which he insisted is “not a bad thing.”

“The easy ones,” Trump said, referring to America’s allies, “I maybe don't like as much or don't get along with as much.”

Trump has been public in his praise of autocrats, especially in relation to Biden, calling world leaders like North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un and Russian President Vladimir Putin “very sharp,” and adding that Kim, “doesn’t know about the problems that Joe has.”

Trump repeatedly said that he has a “very good relationship” with Kim – asserting that the warmth between them has averted war with North Korea – after Tweeting that he is “in good health” and declaring, “never underestimate him!”

Trump also boasted to Woodward in a separate tape about “saving” Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman from Congressional retaliation after the CIA concluded he was behind the brutal killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi.

“We're so respected again,” Trump said during a speech to conservative youth group Turning Points USA in December. “Leaders come in from other countries, prime ministers, presidents, kings, queens, dictators, in some cases – they just don't know they're dictators, or our people don't either – but they come in and they say, ‘Congratulations. What you've done is amazing.’”

In an interview with The Atlantic, Alexander Vindman, the former Director of European Affairs for the National Security Council who was ousted by Trump after he testified against him in the House’s impeachment hearing, called Trump a “useful idiot” and “unwitting agent” of Putin. “In the Army we call this ‘free chicken,’ something you don’t have to work for—it just comes to you,” Vindman told Atlantic editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg. “This is what the Russians have in Trump: free chicken.”

Trump may have his own dictatorial ambitions, having repeatedly mused at recent rallies about negotiating for a change to the constitution so that he can run for a third term, which he said he feels “entitled” to.

His comments and speeches are almost uniformly rambling and incoherent. Google some of them. It really is scary. I truly cannot comprehend Trump's appeal, political leanings aside...

It's midnight here in the US and I just finished reading today's news and can't sleep. I feel like I live in Bizarro World, where everything is nonsensical. Up is down and down is up. Bullies are revered and rewarded while innocents and die.

Trump makes a lot of noise but isn’t even in power now………
I do wonder how you can form that view , what do you base it on?

I base that view (which isn’t a view, it’s a fact) on the fact that the President of the USA is Biden, not Trump!

Clearly Trump knew where the dictators were coming from because he was so similar . They recognised him , he recognised them .He was actually quite good at foreign policy , probably better than Biden . I think Biden is very scary indeed.

Why do you think Biden is very scary indeed nanna8?