Johnson, Putin, Lebedev, chemical weapons have already been used.

I am sorry but I stand by my comments that we do not know all that goes on within governments.

You are not getting the point at all, are you?

I know we don't know the half of what goes on in governments (until the memoirs are published 20 years later) But that is NOT what is being discussed here. We are talking about knowledge that has been in the public domain for a number of years.

Your and Meryl's responses almost look as though you're elevating the whole dirty story into some elaborate Intelligence Plot (to what unfathomable ends?) that we mere mortals have no right to know about.

We know that you don't like Johnson, but you did vote Leave. Of course, Russian influence had nothing at all with your decision but one does wonder why they invested so much money in the Leave campaigns and one or two of its leaders

(Blimey, I think I might be on the verge of paddyann tactics. It'll be all CAPITAL LETTERS next...)

I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

MaizieD knowledge that has been in the public domain for a number of years nail firmly hit on the head.

It has been in the public domain, not all the precise details but a generalised version, for years…

I do not condone Mr.Johnson’s actions, have no idea why he thought making a son of an ex KGB Agent a Lord (no such thing apparently as an ex KGB Agent according to some journo’s)

As for Brexit, I have stated my views numerous times, and have absolutely no intention of repeating myself.

Not quiet sure what it is exactly that you want from me?

MaizieD

^I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.^

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

MaizieD I do realise what voting for my constituency MP means.

I couldn’t vote for the alternatives, and I didn’t want to not vote. In the coming election who knows? by then hopefully there will be a more acceptable leader of the Conservative Party.

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

volver

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

No volver I would have no choice other than to spoil my ballot paper, especially if the same candidates as last time stood for the other parties.

I am one of the growing group of politically homeless

Thank you for answering GG13.

What a state we're in, aren't we?

We know a lot more now than we did at the last election about what the Tories have been up to with the Russians, and with Brexit, with more dot joining happening on a daily basis. It’s a bit unfair to criticise people who voted Tory then with the benefit of today’s knowledge because we look at things differently. I respect GG13 for being honest about it and saying she doesn’t know what she will do next time. Surely Johnson won’t survive to fight another election.

I’m saying this from the perspective of a Labour voter by the way.

I was shocked to learn that Lebedev is “Lord of Siberia” - sitting in our HoL. How does that work?

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

Thank you Grandmabatty. I wasn't sure which way that was intended to mean.

No one in their right mind would want to be a politician these days which is probably why we are getting such a low level and motley crew worldwide. I can’t think of a single good one worth voting for over here and it sounds as though it is similar in the UK.

GrannyGravy13

volver

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

No volver I would have no choice other than to spoil my ballot paper, especially if the same candidates as last time stood for the other parties.

I am one of the growing group of ^politically homeless^

In the by-election, after the tragic death of David Amess, the spoilt ballot party came second. I do wonder how many will feel in that position in the next election.

I do think the facts that have been kept from us, by fair means or foul, have distorted our democracy in the last decade. More recently, a big majority has meant that our local MPs are just cannon fodder. Mine would have been that person anyway but many are better than that. However, they do not feel they can be out of step.

It just occurred to me, while typing, that that is kind of like Russia

MaizieD

^I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.^

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

Exactly. Yes, your nice constituency MP may be a decent chap or chapess, may be great at fighting local issues, and opening fetes, but he is part of the government being swayed and influenced by Russian money, even if your MP is not pocketing anything himself, how many more times does it have to be pointed out? If he is not speaking out against it, he is part of the problem.

If they refuse to deny then I assume we can take it as a yes

Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
· 2h
Boris Johnson's spokesman repeatedly refuses to say whether the Prime Minister was advised by the security services to disassociate himself from Evgeny Lebedev, or whether he was aware of the fact that MI5 and MI6 both expressed repeated concerns about him.

GillT57

MaizieD

I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

Exactly. Yes, your nice constituency MP may be a decent chap or chapess, may be great at fighting local issues, and opening fetes, but he is part of the government being swayed and influenced by Russian money, even if your MP is not pocketing anything himself, how many more times does it have to be pointed out? If he is not speaking out against it, he is part of the problem.

I can only agree.

Apologies GG13, I see you have already replied to this. Thank you for being honest! It is a dilemma that many people will face.

So, the $64,000 ( haven't got a rouble sign on my laptop) question is? Was Brexit illegally achieved? Why when there were programmes about Trump/Aaron Banks/Steve Bannon/Russian funding, why, if it was out there did people ignore it? Was this why Johnson was so panicked about getting it pushed through? Sorry that is more than one question, but you know what I mean.

GillT57

So, the $64,000 ( haven't got a rouble sign on my laptop) question is? Was Brexit illegally achieved? Why when there were programmes about Trump/Aaron Banks/Steve Bannon/Russian funding, why, if it was out there did people ignore it? Was this why Johnson was so panicked about getting it pushed through? Sorry that is more than one question, but you know what I mean.

I think the answer to that is an unequivocal YES.

But what an astounding achievement on their part! Brexit went from absolute little or no interest by the voter, through the many, many lies told by vote leave, on the back of help from as varied people as Bannon, Bank, Farage, Putin, to getting people to believe the propaganda, just as you can see now in Russia, right through to the vote.

Almost immediately the British voter began to see through the lies and propaganda until now when there is very little support for the exercise.

Little does it matter as they have achieved what they set out to achieve, and on the way learned some very useful knowledge about how propaganda works and the manipulation of social media.

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
· Mar 13

In 1963, the Profumo Affair rocked Britain.

The Minister for War had an affair with Christine Keeler…who was also involved with Soviet naval attaché.

And at heart of the scandal: how could a minister of state have jeopardised national security so recklessly & carelessly?

Boris Johnson met ex KGB spy immediately after crucial NATO meeting on Russia after it deployed a chemical weapon in a British town.

He had no security. No-one knew.

But he was not sacked or questioned by police or PM.

Because by the time we found it out, he was the PM

Carole Cadwalldr is the little boy who pointed out that the Emperor was wearing no clothes. Sadly, a lot of grown men decided to bully her, attempt to ruin her professionally and even went as far as pursuing her through the courts.

It's becoming apparent from the various debates on here are that those who supported Johnson, also supported Farage and Trump were generally in favour of Brexit. Some of them are beginning to see the truth about Johnson et al but has that changed their opinions about Brexit and the EU.

Watching Sophie Raworth yesterday morning I thought that the Polish Premier and the Taoiseach were both impressive in the way in which they spoke and their demeanour. Trump and Johnson pale in comparison whenever they speak.

volver

Inappropriate analogy, but here we go anyway:

If a government had spent decades telling you that other countries were out to get you, that they didn't value you and that they just wanted to get something over on you. If they told you the association of other countries were the enemy and you were the good guys. If they told you that everyone was out to get you.

Would you be in Russia or would you be in Brexit Britain?

Sadly it makes the Brits rather more lemming like because at lease we had a choice of media - some more independant than others - which the Russians didn't have.

I think Mr. Lebedev has burnt his bridges with Vladimir Putin…

Yes, but in Britain, whatever the government were saying there would be other political parties, other groups who disagreed with the government and were free to say so.

In Russia, if you do not agree with the government line and try to publish different views or form any kind of opposition political party you would soon be in prison or dead, possibly both.

It’s coming, Monica. As it always does in wartime. Soon all Russians will be branded as the enemy. I don’t think the British are particularly humane, any more than any other nation.