Johnson, Putin, Lebedev, chemical weapons have already been used.

Apologies GG13, I see you have already replied to this. Thank you for being honest! It is a dilemma that many people will face.

GillT57

MaizieD

I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

Exactly. Yes, your nice constituency MP may be a decent chap or chapess, may be great at fighting local issues, and opening fetes, but he is part of the government being swayed and influenced by Russian money, even if your MP is not pocketing anything himself, how many more times does it have to be pointed out? If he is not speaking out against it, he is part of the problem.

I can only agree.

If they refuse to deny then I assume we can take it as a yes

Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
· 2h
Boris Johnson's spokesman repeatedly refuses to say whether the Prime Minister was advised by the security services to disassociate himself from Evgeny Lebedev, or whether he was aware of the fact that MI5 and MI6 both expressed repeated concerns about him.

MaizieD

^I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.^

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

Exactly. Yes, your nice constituency MP may be a decent chap or chapess, may be great at fighting local issues, and opening fetes, but he is part of the government being swayed and influenced by Russian money, even if your MP is not pocketing anything himself, how many more times does it have to be pointed out? If he is not speaking out against it, he is part of the problem.

GrannyGravy13

volver

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

No volver I would have no choice other than to spoil my ballot paper, especially if the same candidates as last time stood for the other parties.

I am one of the growing group of ^politically homeless^

In the by-election, after the tragic death of David Amess, the spoilt ballot party came second. I do wonder how many will feel in that position in the next election.

I do think the facts that have been kept from us, by fair means or foul, have distorted our democracy in the last decade. More recently, a big majority has meant that our local MPs are just cannon fodder. Mine would have been that person anyway but many are better than that. However, they do not feel they can be out of step.

It just occurred to me, while typing, that that is kind of like Russia

No one in their right mind would want to be a politician these days which is probably why we are getting such a low level and motley crew worldwide. I can’t think of a single good one worth voting for over here and it sounds as though it is similar in the UK.

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

Thank you Grandmabatty. I wasn't sure which way that was intended to mean.

I was shocked to learn that Lebedev is “Lord of Siberia” - sitting in our HoL. How does that work?

We know a lot more now than we did at the last election about what the Tories have been up to with the Russians, and with Brexit, with more dot joining happening on a daily basis. It’s a bit unfair to criticise people who voted Tory then with the benefit of today’s knowledge because we look at things differently. I respect GG13 for being honest about it and saying she doesn’t know what she will do next time. Surely Johnson won’t survive to fight another election.

I’m saying this from the perspective of a Labour voter by the way.

Thank you for answering GG13.

What a state we're in, aren't we?

volver

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

No volver I would have no choice other than to spoil my ballot paper, especially if the same candidates as last time stood for the other parties.

I am one of the growing group of politically homeless

OK, seeing as we're having a "get at GG13 day"

If Johnson is still in charge of the Tories, and the same constituency MP was standing in your area, would you still vote Tory?

Sorry, don't mean to harangue you, I am interested.

MaizieD

^I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.^

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

MaizieD I do realise what voting for my constituency MP means.

I couldn’t vote for the alternatives, and I didn’t want to not vote. In the coming election who knows? by then hopefully there will be a more acceptable leader of the Conservative Party.

MaizieD knowledge that has been in the public domain for a number of years nail firmly hit on the head.

It has been in the public domain, not all the precise details but a generalised version, for years…

I do not condone Mr.Johnson’s actions, have no idea why he thought making a son of an ex KGB Agent a Lord (no such thing apparently as an ex KGB Agent according to some journo’s)

As for Brexit, I have stated my views numerous times, and have absolutely no intention of repeating myself.

Not quiet sure what it is exactly that you want from me?

I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.

I'm still amazed, GG13 that you don't seem to realise that there is a close connection between voting for a constituency MP and getting their party into power.

Your nice constituency MP is voting in parliament for all the bad things that this tory government is either doing now or planning for the future...

I am sorry but I stand by my comments that we do not know all that goes on within governments.

You are not getting the point at all, are you?

I know we don't know the half of what goes on in governments (until the memoirs are published 20 years later) But that is NOT what is being discussed here. We are talking about knowledge that has been in the public domain for a number of years.

Your and Meryl's responses almost look as though you're elevating the whole dirty story into some elaborate Intelligence Plot (to what unfathomable ends?) that we mere mortals have no right to know about.

We know that you don't like Johnson, but you did vote Leave. Of course, Russian influence had nothing at all with your decision but one does wonder why they invested so much money in the Leave campaigns and one or two of its leaders

(Blimey, I think I might be on the verge of paddyann tactics. It'll be all CAPITAL LETTERS next...)

Whitewavemark2

I wonder if there are any Tory voters who actually now regret their vote.

How can anyone reading these facts be other than flabbergasted at what they are reading?

I do not regret voting for my Conservative constituency MP.

I do not think that this is a good time to be having a leadership election in the U.K., but it should be high up on the agenda, if not first once the Russian/Ukrainian situation has come to an end.

A negotiated peace, sooner than later hopefully.

Are there any historians amongst us who could point to anything similar in U.K. political history.

A prime minister

Fronted a referendum that has been since found based on fraud.
The security services saw him as a risk as Foreign minister
Is under caution by the police
Associated with cronyism and corruption
Everything that we have been discussing on this thread.

I wonder if there are any Tory voters who actually now regret their vote.

How can anyone reading these facts be other than flabbergasted at what they are reading?

MaizieD

But we're not talking about M15 &M16 in this thread. We are talking about Russian interference and influence in our political and daily life. This is not cloak and dagger intelligence stuff; this is stuff that had been in the public domain for a number of years now and has been marginalised or rubbished.

So, let's try again.

What do our tory/Brexit voters make of it all and are they happy that their Boris is, at the best, a Russian stooge?

MaizieD Mr.Johnson was not my choice for leader of the Conservative Party then or now.

I can only assume that there is far more to this than is being alleged

I am sorry but I stand by my comments that we do not know all that goes on within governments.

But we're not talking about M15 &M16 in this thread. We are talking about Russian interference and influence in our political and daily life. This is not cloak and dagger intelligence stuff; this is stuff that had been in the public domain for a number of years now and has been marginalised or rubbished.

So, let's try again.

What do our tory/Brexit voters make of it all and are they happy that their Boris is, at the best, a Russian stooge?

Doodledog

*Why do you think that everything to do with national security should be out in the open for debate . . .*

If that was to me, the answer is that I don't, and I didn't suggest otherwise.

No it wasn’t aimed at you Doodledog , it was in response to bookwormbabe

Why do you think that everything to do with national security should be out in the open for debate . . .

If that was to me, the answer is that I don't, and I didn't suggest otherwise.

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

Thanks, Grandmabatty. That is what I meant.

bookwormbabe

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

That's how I read it as well Grandmabatty and I shudder to think what else has been going on that we don't know about.

We never know about all the planned terrorist attacks that are detected before they have a chance to destroy lives. We are not told about the attempted cyber crime until after it has been thwarted. We only know immediately with both of these when they get through the net

Why do you think that everything to do with national security should be out in the open for debate, if it becomes public knowledge then our enemies will know also.

There are reasons that MI5 and MI6 have not been disbanded