Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Yes those women just arent screaming loud enough.

Vulnerable people by definition are unable to scream and shout! That’s why they’re vulnerable! Whatever next? Blaming women for their own deaths at the hands of their menfolk?

volver

I started this thread but I'm about to hide it.

What a fuss about not very much.

Don't do irreversible medical procedures on children, don't believe everything you read on right wing sites, stop worrying about whether lesbians have penises and whether you'll be seen by a nurse with a beard.

And now that I've offended everyone, I'm hiding this thread.

That’s more than offensive, Volver. It’s cruel and misogynistic to minimise people’s experiences such as my friend who had been raped being allocated to a ‘woman’ nurse who was clearly a man in a dress for a smear test.

Galaxy

You havent offended me volver. I have lost lots of respect for you. Mocking traumatised women who want to be seen by a female when they are in a vulnerable position just doesnt really do it for me.

OK, I haven't found the hide button yet, give me time.

I don't care if you've lost respect or not. If you are in a vulnerable position and are not happy with how you are being treated, scream the place down, Don't expect a whole segment of society to conform to ideas that you think would make you feel more secure.

I miss volver

whatever happened to consent during all of this as well

You havent offended me volver. I have lost lots of respect for you. Mocking traumatised women who want to be seen by a female when they are in a vulnerable position just doesnt really do it for me.

volver

I started this thread but I'm about to hide it.

What a fuss about not very much.

Don't do irreversible medical procedures on children, don't believe everything you read on right wing sites, stop worrying about whether lesbians have penises and whether you'll be seen by a nurse with a beard.

And now that I've offended everyone, I'm hiding this thread.

Amen!

volver I've done it in the past but they still appear in the active discussions box...

Wishing you strength over curiosity lol

Let’s just be sensible about people we have known. I’ve lost count of the times gay or lesbian friends used to be told all they needed was a good seeing to by someone of the opposite sex to turn them
As for we old feminists / how often were we told we were short of a good seeing to, that’d get rid of our grumbling and silly ideas

I started this thread but I'm about to hide it.

What a fuss about not very much.

Don't do irreversible medical procedures on children, don't believe everything you read on right wing sites, stop worrying about whether lesbians have penises and whether you'll be seen by a nurse with a beard.

And now that I've offended everyone, I'm hiding this thread.

I dont think its rude to say I dont date women. I have seen gay men say very kindly I dont date women.

The two gay men I have known who were propositioned by women (one knew the bloke was gay, the other didn't) behaved with great politeness and consideration to the women concerned. One politely removed himself and avoided the woman, the other explained he was gay and in fact had a civil partnership. Neither was rude, perhaps that's just on social media.

I don't tell anyone how to express themselves... Unless they ask me for dating advice

I do think I've made my point now though, it's right there and I only asked for it to be considered that it's not actually polite to shout "I won't date trans people" unless a trans person has actually said that to you.

I get its in "solidarity" because some bonkers trans people think they have a right to dates...

However it is hurtful to trans people who don't think like that. Especially as trans people can be also be anywhere on the spectrum of sexuality themselves

Perhaps you could pop onto the dating websites and tell gay men how they should express their preferences. From what I jave seen the responses from gay men would be robust to say the least.

Dickens thanks, I'm not good at explaining myself sometimes I think.

It's like if there were 2 dating profiles and I was in the preferences section:

1. I'm looking for a man, 18 to 30, good sense of humour, enjoys being outdoors and physical activity, loves dogs and going on adventures.

2. I don't date women, old people, people who sit around watching tele, overweight people or people who like cats and are boring..

I know that's a out there but profiles like the second one exist and are very very off putting because they don't sound like nice people.

Galaxy

I respect gay mens sexuality VS so I am very happy for them to say I dont date women. Any woman who is offended by that is self absorbed at best and homohobic at worst.

I think the issue here is not with the fact, but the way it's presented.

Some think that your preference should only be coined in 'positive' language and, up to a point, I agree. But what do you say if an individual, for whatever reason, insists that gay men "should" date women? It seems slightly incredible, but I have throughout my life heard the odd comment to that effect, goodness only knows why - perhaps it's thought that dating a woman would 'straighten' them out or something. But faced with that kind of observation what else can you do but be brutally honest and say I don't date women because I don't find them attractive. Is that offensive to women? If it is, we're in trouble.

I tend to the conclusion that it's homophobic like you say - or a comment made by someone who just doesn't understand what homosexuality is. In which case, they need to get to grips with it, and enlightening such an individual with polite phrases like "I date men" doesn't cut it.

Dr Hilary Cass, a retired paediatrician has published results from her investigation into the Tavistock ‘s Gender Identity Development Service.
Dr Cass is concerned at delays because the Tavistock is the only resource specialising in GIDS.
Keira - referred at 15, three interviews then drug therapy and finally a double mastectomy. She has now realised it was all a mistake, she’s reverted to living as a female but with her voice permanently lowered and her body changed.

Dr Cass is concerned that the long term impact of powerful hormone treatments.

In 2009 there were approximately 50 referrals annually. By 2020, it had increased to 2,500. Initially, mainly boys sought treatment, now teenage girls make up the majority.

One third of the whole have diagnosed autism, or other neurodiversity. A large proportion are looked after children.

This is an independent report from a respected paediatrician.

I’m waiting for the posters who dismiss those of us who express similar concerns to label Dr Cass transphobic, to suggest she would have been homophobic in the 50’s and 60’s

trisher

Funny isn't it we always get on these threads allegations about what TRAs have said or transwomen have said usually without any evidence being presented. I think there probably are a few trans people who don't respect other people's boundaries. Just as there are men who don't and even some women who don't. We wouldn't say these people are representative of the whole group, so why are the objectionable trans people considered representative of them?

Sigh. Here we go again.

No, we wouldn't say that 'objectionable people' are representative of any group, but we do have laws to stop them from doing 'objectionable things' and we did have safe spaces so that women and girls were not exposed to the objectionable people when vulnerable or in a state of undress.

If a man entered those spaces women could ask him to leave, and if he showed his penis they could have him arrested. Now, if he enters the spaces and says he is a woman, women who ask him to leave are called 'phobic', and are not supposed to react if he flaunts his 'lady penis' in front of their teenage daughter or young grandchild.

I don't think it's funny, by the way - it's bloody hard work.

SueDonim

^You don't get to label anyone other than yourself Rosie. That's just how it is^

Yet it is ok for women to be labelled by others as cis women, pregnant people, bleeder, cervix-haver, chest feeder, non-men?

Exactly. Seems some are able to label other people, but others aren't even allowed to use the dictionary definitions. We truly are through the looking glass and Humpty Dumpty reigns supreme.
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Nowadays it would be 'who is to be master' and it isn't women.

trisher

Funny isn't it we always get on these threads allegations about what TRAs have said or transwomen have said usually without any evidence being presented. I think there probably are a few trans people who don't respect other people's boundaries. Just as there are men who don't and even some women who don't. We wouldn't say these people are representative of the whole group, so why are the objectionable trans people considered representative of them?

Children do that. If you mention any thing that X has done wrong, X and his/ her supporters immediately cry, “ He or she did it first” or “They did it too” as if that makes what X does any better, or excuses the behaviour.
On GN, when someone mentions that some trans use their trans persona wrongly, e.g. claiming to be a woman in order to cheat, or to access vulnerable females’ spaces, out comes the cry,
“Well there are bad men and bad women too!” as if that makes the ill-intentions of some trans towards the rights of females not so bad, or excusable.
It’s a childish excuse, that I often hear in school, but certain posters use it again and again.
The some trans and the non-trans who support them are doing far more to make life hard for the majority of trans than anyone else. Unless you think that cheating and taking something belonging to others is acceptable and trans or anyone else should not be criticised for doing it.

SueDonim

^You don't get to label anyone other than yourself Rosie. That's just how it is^

Yet it is ok for women to be labelled by others as cis women, pregnant people, bleeder, cervix-haver, chest feeder, non-men?

Nail firmly hit on the head…

You don't get to label anyone other than yourself Rosie. That's just how it is

Yet it is ok for women to be labelled by others as cis women, pregnant people, bleeder, cervix-haver, chest feeder, non-men?

Funny isn't it we always get on these threads allegations about what TRAs have said or transwomen have said usually without any evidence being presented. I think there probably are a few trans people who don't respect other people's boundaries. Just as there are men who don't and even some women who don't. We wouldn't say these people are representative of the whole group, so why are the objectionable trans people considered representative of them?

Galaxy

God one of these days I will type homophobic correctly

... I had to laugh at that because it's so frustrating when you see the error and can't edit it.

Actually, if you hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't have noticed - the eye / brain gets trained to see what it should see apparently. There was a 'test' on Facebook once with a badly spelled sentence - an error in every line - and some words with letters actually missing, but everyone could read it clearly because their brain filled in automatically the missing bits.

Not a lot of people know that!