Violence at Stop violence against women march

I'm well aware of the history of the suffragette movement trisher and how they were referred too which is why I'm horrified when I see the same, similar and even worse said about women who do not accept that trans women are women and the attempts to silence them.
The real truth, Smileless2012

Or when Ford went into mass production 'you can have any colour you want as long as it's black' Mollygo.

I'm well aware of the history of the suffragette movement trisher and how they were referred too which is why I'm horrified when I see the same, similar and even worse said about women who do not accept that trans women are women and the attempts to silence them.

ViolentSky but your link is only explains well or is important to tw.
Feminists who respect Females and the females themselves need to have their concerns addressed and respected without having to ‘compromise’ and ‘look for ways to work together’. All attempts so far are a bit like Mr Putin and Ukraine. His view is like what some TW claim.
You can have what you want as long as what I want comes first. Or like the cuckoo I mentioned earlier.

Exactly so Dickens. Misogyny, Xenophobia, prejudice and bigotry usually go hand in hand.

That’s one of the reasons that putting gender critical feminists in the same group is so offensive.

VioletSky

This explains well

www.womankind.org.uk/intersectionality-101-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/

... it does.

Before the word 'intersectionality' gained traction, it was obvious to me - and therefore I assume most others - that the oppression of, and discrimination against, women and girls, huge though it feels if you are in that demographic, is only part of the same oppression and discrimination that affects other groups. I also realised quite early that a misogynist is not unlikely to also be a racist bigot. Xenophobia, prejudice and bigotry are all part of the socially and politically 'illiterate' mindset. It's a culture all of its own.

This explains well

www.womankind.org.uk/intersectionality-101-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/

trisher

Dickens you could add to that that although you share body similarities with her you have not experienced what a black women has experienced. Your oppression has been different to hers.
That's the whole point of intersectional feminism. We have diifferent experiences but we can stand united against oppresion and discrimination.

Well it's axiomatic that as a white person, I have not experienced the racial discrimination suffered by black women - or men - full stop! And I'm very much aware of that.

The omission was simply because I was looking at both demographics as a group - I just didn't split them up into sub-sections. But yes, I realise that to be black and trans is something I can know about, but not experience.

Smileless2012

Women are strong trisher, we need to be and it's obvious that Chewbacca's post in response to nanna isn't about what's been posted on this thread or any other on this topic.

I don't recall seeing the posts you claimed to have seen; can you remember where they are?

Yes there is strength in unity which is why women should be united in preserving our identity, our safe places, our sense of self and well being.

Of course the suffragettes knew this and they also knew what it was to be a woman, and if they were here today they would know that a trans woman is not a woman,

Look at volvers thread about gender. She was roundly condemned for suggesting women could be strong.

Dickens you could add to that that although you share body similarities with her you have not experienced what a black women has experienced. Your oppression has been different to hers.
That's the whole point of intersectional feminism. We have diifferent experiences but we can stand united against oppresion and discrimination.

GrannyGravy13

Dickens grannydarkhair eloquent, informative posts ????

... thank you. grannydarkhair really does though know her stuff, and I am learning from what she's posted.

I'm bowing out now from this, ahem, interesting discussion - with all its deletions - as I've got work to do. But would just like to say this in conclusion.

I, as a natal woman, cannot possibly know how it feels to be a trans woman. I haven't suffered the discrimination they have had to endure. I don't know what it's like to want / need to identify as a woman. I haven't undergone any treatment that might play havoc with my hormones - nor experienced the pleasure / relief that it also might give if it's successful. Neither do I know what it feels like to dress as a woman and have people stare at you because they feel you don't look "quite right". I can empathise with all that trans women have to put up with and argue against the bigotry that 'others' them... but I cannot live their experiences because I am not them. I can listen, and I can learn.

In turn, they cannot know my experience as a woman, they have not lived it. My history is different from theirs. They cannot define me and I will not be defined by them. We have communality though - we are both groups who have been discriminated against, and both have had violence perpetrated against them. And in essence, we both want to belong to and identify with each other, as a demographic.

... that's as much as I understand. And that's what I feel.

evil. Many of the things now justifiably attributed to ill-intentioned transwomen.

Smileless2012

Women are strong trisher, we need to be and it's obvious that Chewbacca's post in response to nanna isn't about what's been posted on this thread or any other on this topic.

I don't recall seeing the posts you claimed to have seen; can you remember where they are?

Yes there is strength in unity which is why women should be united in preserving our identity, our safe places, our sense of self and well being.

Of course the suffragettes knew this and they also knew what it was to be a woman, and if they were here today they would know that a trans woman is not a woman,

Actually the suffragettes were roundly condemned and called unwomanly because of their activities Smileless2012. They were told having the vote would change them. The white in the suffragette colours stands for purity because they were called irreligious and even evil. Many of the things now attributed to transwomen.
I'm willing to unite with anyone who realises that trans status is not the issue at all it's inequality and persecution.

Women can be strong, but women would be stronger if they had the support of ordinary tw against the ill-intentioned ones. If all tw are really supportive of the women they aspire to call themselves, they would not be seeking to override the rights of those women who are AHF. Most of them aren’t doing that.
The ill-intentioned transwomen are like cuckoos. They want what the genuine baby is entitled to have and throw the genuine baby out without any compunction about the damage they are doing.

Women are strong trisher, we need to be and it's obvious that Chewbacca's post in response to nanna isn't about what's been posted on this thread or any other on this topic.

I don't recall seeing the posts you claimed to have seen; can you remember where they are?

Yes there is strength in unity which is why women should be united in preserving our identity, our safe places, our sense of self and well being.

Of course the suffragettes knew this and they also knew what it was to be a woman, and if they were here today they would know that a trans woman is not a woman,

Chewbacca

^So the men win again- by fair means or foul^ Them and their fervent supporters, yes nanna8. They're adamant that women should shut up, accept whatever crap they're given and, no matter what level of unprovoked violence is meted out to them..... be kind.

I would love to know who has said this. I've seen posts from people condemned because they have actually said that women are not the weak and frightened entitities they are often painted as by the gender critical. I've seen posts suggesting women should recognise the abuse and intimidation other people suffer and support those people. I've never seen one post saying they should be kind apart from accusations from the gender critical who apparently don't know the difference between unity and kindness. There is strength in unity. Women can be strong. Even the suffragettes knew this

Dickens grannydarkhair eloquent, informative posts ????

Well put Dickens. ??

grannydarkhair

Dickens I only became truly aware of the TWAW, safe single sex spaces, etc, issues because of the abuse meted out to JKRowling for her totally non-transphobic remarks. It’s like going down a rabbit hole once you do start reading.
Have you read about Raquel Rosaria Sanchez, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix and how many universities in the UK have become “captured’ by trans rights?
There are voices of both sexes, gay, straight and trans who have been “peaked” (the moment when you realise just how bad things are) for years, fighting to retain the hard fought for rights of women and gays and the safeguarding of children.
The interim Cass review, just recently released and the Nolan Report on iPlayer are both worth reading and listening to. It’s worth reading up on how Stonewall has changed over the last few years. Other names to read about are Ceri Black, Maya Forstater, Keira Bell. And on the trans activist side, there’s Grace Laverty, Katy Montgomerie, Adrian Harrop, Owen Jones, David Paisley.
Posy Parker (a very strong voice) is in the USA right now protesting about Lia Thomas competing in the women’s competitions. Lia was apparently very average a swimmer as a male, but as a transwoman (hormones only, no surgery), because of the advantages of having gone through male puberty, is literally lengths ahead of female swimmers. By being picked for every meet, he deprives a young woman who has trained from early childhood of a place. He changes in the same changing room as the rest of his team, and they have complained that he makes no attempt to hide the fact that he is a man. It has been suggested that the rest of the team refuse to train/compete against him, but the majority of them are on scholarships and would be flung out of both the team and Penn State Uni if they did as has been made plain to them by the Uni.
There’s screeds more I could write, but a lot of it has been already mentioned in this thread and others.

An interesting and informative post grannydarkhair - thank you.

Lots to read up on and research... names (some) I've never heard of.

I looked at one of JKR's comments that caused outrage...

“If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction,” she tweeted. “If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth.”

I can't for the life of me see any 'hate' in her statement. And the fact there are those who want to silence her - and others like her - is, to me, quite frightening. And she's right - "erasing the concept of sex" really does mean censoring the voices of women - yet again.

In reality (making it personal) it means I cannot publicly talk about my life as a woman because it will offend and annoy trans women (some) who insist they are also women... but whose lives have probably taken a completely different route to mine. It means they can talk about discrimination, but I can't. It means they can define what it means to be a woman, but I can't. They will not (rightly) allow others to define them, and I will not allow them to define me.

Grannydarkhair - love it. That’s the thing really, endlessly convoluting and complicating stuff.

I summarised the Cass report earlier. There was no response from posters who insist that early treatment with hormones / surgery is the right approach. Debate is important and it worries me that there was such a flurry of deletions with no explanation as to it’s cause.

Posy Parker, poolside in the USA in “discussion” with a young man defending Lia Thomas.
Posy Parker says, pointing to LT, that’s not a woman. Young guy goes on a bit, Posy snaps back with “I’m not a vet, but I know what a dog is”. That’s got to go on a t-shirt ?

So the men win again- by fair means or foul Them and their fervent supporters, yes nanna8. They're adamant that women should shut up, accept whatever crap they're given and, no matter what level of unprovoked violence is meted out to them..... be kind.

Chewbacca I’m jealous, I’ve not been to the theatre since COVID started. I have been to the cinema a few times.
Galaxy It’s not just vulnerable women, it’s all the young folks, primarily girls who have declared themselves trans, and what they’ve done to themselves. It’s the gays of both sexes who fought so hard for their rights. It’s the trans of both sexes who have been living quiet average lives for years
tickingbird Yes, a lot of what’s going on is unbelievable but sadly true. And no, there’s still a vast number of people who either don’t know or even worse, don’t care because they think it doesn’t affect them.
Smileless2012 I’d love to know what his parents/wider family (if he has such) think. If he was my son, I’d be ashamed.

Smileless2012

What's the point? What personal satisfaction can a man get out of 'winning' a sporting event against women with such an obvious and unfair advantage.
The personal satisfaction of proving men are in charge. Of ‘putting one over the women! He knows people are afraid to challenge this because they might lose their Uni places. He knows that the transactivists and trans supporters could and would abuse those who say anything, just as they have with JKR others mentioned in * grannydarkhair’s* post.
The rule by fear strategy works in schools, workplaces and countries and the ill- intentioned transwomen, whose supporters are possibly ruled by the same fear that keeps children in a group with bullies are ruling by fear in instances like these.

If I be waspish, best beware my sting.

So the men win again- by fair means or foul. I’ve had enough of it. These people are taking us back years to the dark ages. I am glad it hasn’t yet reached our shores yet and hope we have more sense than to put up with that sort of garbage.