I think this will happen more and more

Caleo

It's time human athletes were categorised not according to sex but according to past form only, or given handicaps like golfers. Maybe.

It’s time human athletes were categorised according to sex, until it’s proven that being of one sex or another makes no difference.

I like the handicap idea though I suspect certain competitors would hide their light under a bushel in heats to avoid being given a handicap in the finals. Just another way of cheating.

Rosie51 you are so right. I am involved with a women’s football club. For a trans women to play they have to pass certain medical tests before being allowed to do so basically showing testosterone levels are below a certain level. The problem if I may call it that is when the trans person does this later in life having developed as a man. We had a trans goal keeper play against us. He was tall, broad, had large hands and a deep voice. The girls were terrified and avoided getting close. It did give the other team a distinct advantage but it was permitted. It is a concern.

Thanks for posting that letter GrannyGravy13. Well said those women/mothers

It's time human athletes were categorised not according to sex but according to past form only, or given handicaps like golfers. Maybe.

This is an extract from a letter published in the New York Post from the mothers of the girl swimmers (who are up till now have been Uni champions, the best) who have had to compete agains Lia

Genuine answer snowberryZ
No it doesn’t make any of those changes. Yes he does retain these many advantageous male characteristics.
No, none of that matters to those men and women who condone the cheating.

Genuine question.
If a man has already been through puberty before he starts taking female hormones, does the lack of testosterone shrink his heart and his lungs and his better suited to sport narrow pelvis? Does it change bone density?
Or does he still retain these many advantageous male characteristics?

Caitlyn Jenner 's view.

(not really, it's soooooo predictable)

volver

And all shall have prizes.

?

Rosie51

Now why have I suddenly thought of the oozlum bird?

???

Now why have I suddenly thought of the oozlum bird?

And all shall have prizes.

Brilliantly put Rosie51 and grannydarkhair.

Chewbacca
????? Well said grannydarkhair. You've neatly summarised the whole issue but there will still be the enablers who attempt to defend the indefensible

Chewbacca I wish you weren’t right.

grannydarkhair

volver If you think some of the posts on here are hateful, (I don’t), then for your own sake, please don’t participate in any transgender threads on Twitter. And if women are hateful in their comments, then whilst I may not condone it, I certainly understand it.
Transactivists have been saying for years “TWAW”, “NO DEBATE” and to a much lesser extent “TMAM”. When GC voices argued against them, they were called transphobic, bigots, fascists, Nazis, told they were “cancelled”, told they were allied to white right-wing American Christian groups, etc, etc. They were threatened with physical violence (which has now happened on numerous occasions), threatened they’d be raped to death, threatened they’d be raped with barbed-wire covered baseball bats (lots of photos of these tweets are to be found).
When GC women said that gender self-identification could lead to predatory men in what should be safe single-spaces, and that this could be potentially dangerous, they were told, repeatedly, “THAT’LL NEVER HAPPEN”. Well guess what?
But because of Keira Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix, Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Graham Linehan, the Nolan report on Stonewall, the “capture” of most of the major UK political parties, etc., more and more people are beginning to take an interest in the transgender issue/s.
Other names that have had an effect but for completely different reasons are Karen White, Aimee Challoner, Monica Sulley.
Because so many people are interested in sports, then Lia Thomas (who was on a drug regime for at least a year prior to competing against women. Not sure what, no article I’ve read has said, but I’m assuming a female hormone/testosterone blocker [if such a drug exists]) has sparked off huge threads on Twitter and masses of written material in the MSM, with many contributors admitting that they’d never thought trans issues would affect them. The opinions of Sharon Davies and Daley Thompson, both strongly against mixed sex sport, are influencing people.
And in answer to who the transman boxer should box against? As I am strongly against transwomen competing against women, then I’d be a hypocrite if I said that he should be allowed to compete against men. But, because of the affects of the testosterone that he’s been taking since 2013, the idea of him fighting a woman horrifies me. So, I honestly don’t know.

Thanks for your sincere concern. The fact that Twitter is really hateful doesn't excuse a little bit of...antipathy on GN.

????? Well said grannydarkhair. You've neatly summarised the whole issue but there will still be the enablers who attempt to defend the indefensible.

Rosie51 ???

volver If you think some of the posts on here are hateful, (I don’t), then for your own sake, please don’t participate in any transgender threads on Twitter. And if women are hateful in their comments, then whilst I may not condone it, I certainly understand it.
Transactivists have been saying for years “TWAW”, “NO DEBATE” and to a much lesser extent “TMAM”. When GC voices argued against them, they were called transphobic, bigots, fascists, Nazis, told they were “cancelled”, told they were allied to white right-wing American Christian groups, etc, etc. They were threatened with physical violence (which has now happened on numerous occasions), threatened they’d be raped to death, threatened they’d be raped with barbed-wire covered baseball bats (lots of photos of these tweets are to be found).
When GC women said that gender self-identification could lead to predatory men in what should be safe single-spaces, and that this could be potentially dangerous, they were told, repeatedly, “THAT’LL NEVER HAPPEN”. Well guess what?
But because of Keira Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix, Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Graham Linehan, the Nolan report on Stonewall, the “capture” of most of the major UK political parties, etc., more and more people are beginning to take an interest in the transgender issue/s.
Other names that have had an effect but for completely different reasons are Karen White, Aimee Challoner, Monica Sulley.
Because so many people are interested in sports, then Lia Thomas (who was on a drug regime for at least a year prior to competing against women. Not sure what, no article I’ve read has said, but I’m assuming a female hormone/testosterone blocker [if such a drug exists]) has sparked off huge threads on Twitter and masses of written material in the MSM, with many contributors admitting that they’d never thought trans issues would affect them. The opinions of Sharon Davies and Daley Thompson, both strongly against mixed sex sport, are influencing people.
And in answer to who the transman boxer should box against? As I am strongly against transwomen competing against women, then I’d be a hypocrite if I said that he should be allowed to compete against men. But, because of the affects of the testosterone that he’s been taking since 2013, the idea of him fighting a woman horrifies me. So, I honestly don’t know.

Excellent Rosie! ???

Well said, Rosie

Rosie51 ?

More energy than I have tonight. I got tired after two sentences .

Brilliantly articulated Rosie51; you've absolutely nailed it.

Actually it looks like if you dare to refer to the scientific fact that it is impossible to change your sex, you're a transphobe.
If you state there are only two sexes you're a transphobe.
If you say you don't have a gender identity you're a transphobe.
If you question people like Lia Thomas, a failed male swimmer who identifies as a transwoman to then become number 1, smashing the women's records, then you're a transphobe.
Think people with penises have no place on female wards, prisons, refuges, communal changing rooms, then you're a transphobe.
Think it's unfair that 'Business Woman of the year' type awards (categories created because females weren't regarded equally with their male counterparts) are awarded to trans identified males, then you are a transphobe.
Think females shouldn't have their terms eg woman, mother etc replaced by 'pregnant people' 'menstruators' 'cervix havers' against their will, then you're a transphobe.
Say sex and gender are totally different things and many people don't have any gender then you're a transphobe.
If you say anything should just be for females, then you're a transphobe. And the worst of it this is all said by people who claim to be so kind.
As for All the medical terms about anatomy are strictly devided into male and female and trans people either deal with being the gender we tell them they are or don't get the help they need. Well medical terms that apply to sexual differences about our biology are divided into the two sexes because there are only two sexes. I don't think anyone has told any trans person what gender they have to be, especially as many of us do not have one. They can have any gender they want to join and display, aren't we told there are 100 or more genders? Unfortunately they can't choose what sex they are, that was determined at conception where biology rules not man.