I think this will happen more and more

The issue of trans women competing against women in sport is a real issue BlueBelle. You might have seen it discussed on several of the trans related OP’s

Its worthy of a thread of its own though. Caitlin Jenner who competed in the Olympics as a man before his transition, was reported to have said he’s opposed to allowing trans women to compete in this way because of the obvious differences in physical power and size. Caitlin Jenner recommends separate competitions for trans women.

Interested to know where we think this boxer should complete.

www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

Personally I think that there should be transgender categories in all single sex sports.

I agree with Caitlin Jenner. In the meantime if women refuse to compete against male bodied persons, the competition organisers will lose out and change to fairness will happen faster.

I do understand women not wanting to miss taking part though after all their training and hard work.

Lia Thomas wasn't particularly outstanding before she became a woman, now she wipes the floor with women who as good as they are, don't stand a chance. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be, dedicating an enormous amount of time training for such events knowing that your best will never be good enough to surmount that of a person who has muscle power and a physique to power along way past any personal best achieved. Just to underline their disadvantage, I believe several of Lia's competitors have not been happy catching sight of her penis in the changing rooms.

Caitlin Jenner should be listened to as a former Olympic athlete she would have enough insight to make such a judgement.

I agree there should be a separate category
Look at the size of the person against the women
It’s very unfair

Thanks for showing us an article about a transmen volver. Do you think we havent seen a transman before. I think sport should be segregated by sex. How else do you poropose to segregate it.

Here's some advice folks.

Don't question.

Don't have curiosity.

Don't have a different view.

Most of all, don't be a handmaid of the patriarchy.

I thought the suggestion about transgender categories was an interesting one but I'm sure you know best Galaxy. I'm sure the female boxers will be happy to get in the ring with Manuel.

volver

Interested to know where we think this boxer should complete.

www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

If this transman wants to compete as a man, she should do that. She will be no danger to any of the men, other than the usual danger of boxing.
A transwoman, competing as a woman, could pose a very great danger to women boxers.

I'm surprised you don't understand that, volver.

www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight

"Brents received seven staples to her head, and also suffered a concussion. She was overpowered by Fox to an extent that even the orbital bone inside her skull was fractured."

Lia Thomas wasn't particularly outstanding before she became a woman, now she wipes the floor with women who as good as they are, don't stand a chance.

So if men who are performing well in the male category then decide to be women, the women's category will cease to exist for natal women.

I'm sure the female boxers will be happy to get in the ring with Manuel.

If Manuel has not been taking testosterone, I'm sure the women boxers will be fine with it.
I'd guess she probably has, tho

Why do you think Manuel shouldn't be fighting women, but Fallon Fox (a man) should be?

One person says Manuel should compete as a man, another says Manuel should compete as a woman because people can't change sex and Manuel was born a woman.

Get your facts sorted out before you start with the indignation, eh?

Transmen cant compete against women as far as I can remember because of the rules around testosterone.
You would be wrong about what most gender critical feminists would think about transmen, so for example there are no transmen placed in males prisons, and I and the GC feminists I know would be horrified at the idea that they should.
GC feminist have argued for transgender spaces for years.

Do you think we are some sort of hive mind volver?

volver

Interested to know where we think this boxer should complete.

www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

Well I think he should box against males if he wishes and they agree. He shouldn't box against women because that would be cheating by virtue of the testosterone he takes which no female opponent would be permitted.

Where do you think he should compete?

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

They cant fight as females because of the testosterone. The same as if I was taking testerone I wouldnt be allowed to compete.
I personally think we need to stop pretending that people can change sex.

Right then. So it's nothing to do with Manuel 's sex, it's to do with the drugs Manuel has taken.

Also presumbably by that argument you would place transmen in male prisons. The last time I checked there were no transmen in male prisons, presumably because of the risk level, although offending pattern difference between sexes may also play a part.

volver

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

I'd have thought the scientist in you would actually understand the bit about the testosterone, but there you go I overestimated.
Are you aware of the influence of a male puberty that cannot be undone by a bit of testosterone reduction? The heart doesn't shrink, nor the lungs lose capacity. Skeletal shape doesn't change, nor bones lose their density or length. There's tons on the internet if you'd like to educate yourself.

I have just said I think sport should be segregated by sex, other people think differently. Your position on treatment for children is the complete opposite of most people on the 'opposing' side of the argument. People hold different views. Your view on medical treatment of gender dysphoric children isnt invalid because other oeopke would argue you are causing trans children harm with that apptoach

Galaxy

Also presumbably by that argument you would place transmen in male prisons. The last time I checked there were no transmen in male prisons, presumably because of the risk level, although offending pattern difference between sexes may also play a part.

You presume a lot, don't you Galaxy? You presume to know what I believe, when I haven't expressed any such idea on this or any other thread. Making assumptions about what I think. That's very enlightened of you.

Dear god my typing.

Rosie51

volver

No hive mind, but I thought the idea that people can't change sex is sacrosanct. So people born female have to fight as females. But apparently they can fight as males if they like.

But only if they were born female. If they were born males, they have to confirm to the rules set for them.

I'd have thought the scientist in you would actually understand the bit about the testosterone, but there you go I overestimated.
Are you aware of the influence of a male puberty that cannot be undone by a bit of testosterone reduction? The heart doesn't shrink, nor the lungs lose capacity. Skeletal shape doesn't change, nor bones lose their density or length. There's tons on the internet if you'd like to educate yourself.

I dropped biology before O-Grade.

I can explain astrophysics and quantum mechanics to you though, if you like.