Ukraine - contd

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

Not at all

POTUS has played right into Putin’s handbook that the West does not and has never respected Russia or it’s President.

The President of the free world wants to remove me as your President, and then what will happen to Russia

How would you feel if as an ordinary Russian citizen you saw this played over and over again on your TV, and that was the only source of information available to you?

But the reason it will make no difference to the outcome is that this is the message that the Russians have been receiving for decades from Putin, it is nothing new as far as they are concerned. It is one if the reasons that Putin used to go into Ukraine.

Whitewavemark2

Right then assuming you are all correct, what do you suggest happens next?

Start praying that President Putin’s remaining inner circle have the balls not to follow his orders…

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

Not at all

POTUS has played right into Putin’s handbook that the West does not and has never respected Russia or it’s President.

The President of the free world wants to remove me as your President, and then what will happen to Russia

How would you feel if as an ordinary Russian citizen you saw this played over and over again on your TV, and that was the only source of information available to you?

Right then assuming you are all correct, what do you suggest happens next?

What we have to focus on is the evil being done by Putin, and not a mis+spoken word by the leader of the free world.

It is so important not to over-react at such a difficult time.

Unfortunately the misspoken word could be an over-reaction at such a difficult time.
It was at best undiplomatic, at worst downright dangerous.

It may be what we are all thinking but best left unsaid by the "leader" of the West. Until then I thought he was doing excellent job.

Pro-Putin Russia and those who are anti-Biden will now be seeking more propaganda to justify Putin's actions and unsettle Biden's leadership.

volver

Whitewavemark2

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

The White House nee Biden?

This is just getting silly now WWM2

Why

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

volver

^Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.^

???

Isn't the point of this whole sorry mess that we are allowed to criticise our leaders when they do something wrong?

Yes of course it is, and we are aren’t we? But I am simple saying that it is essential not to over-react, and use it as too big a stick to beat Biden with.

The White House recognised the error immediately, as did the rest of the free world. The correction was made, which of course will not be shown in Russia.

We should recognise that Biden is almost certainly metaphorically beating his chest over his ad-Lib remark (when he spoke as an ordinary man and echoed almost certainly what we all think) which he simply can’t afford to do.

Accept his explanation as a form of apology and move on.

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

Whitewavemark2

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

The White House nee Biden?

This is just getting silly now WWM2

Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.

???

Isn't the point of this whole sorry mess that we are allowed to criticise our leaders when they do something wrong?

MerylStreep

GranyGravy
I have a friend in Siberia. English TEFL. This piece by Bidon is practically on a loop on Russian TV. It’s played right in to Putins hands: see, I told you what they wanted, they want to rule us
Thank god the more compos mantis are busy trying to mop up the mess. But an awful lot of people are buying Putins message.

They are because there is no other message to buy on their msm.

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

GranyGravy
I have a friend in Siberia. English TEFL. This piece by Bidon is practically on a loop on Russian TV. It’s played right in to Putins hands: see, I told you what they wanted, they want to rule us
Thank god the more compos mantis are busy trying to mop up the mess. But an awful lot of people are buying Putins message.

I’m not saying it was, but it should not be used as a stick to beat Biden with in these so difficult times.

Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.

But as I keep saying, it will make little difference to the outcome in Ukraine.

volver

Leader of one powerful country says leader of another powerful country should be removed from power.

People in the second country will be shown the leader of the first country saying their own leader should be removed from power.

That's not a small incident.

That’s how I feel volver

I think dismissing this as a small incident is unwise.

Which is why the White House has been backtracking/explaining over the last 24 hours.

Leader of one powerful country says leader of another powerful country should be removed from power.

People in the second country will be shown the leader of the first country saying their own leader should be removed from power.

That's not a small incident.

GrannyGravy13

Putin is in the wrong, no one in their right mind could agree with what he is doing.

POTUS insinuating that he (Putin) should not remain in power was a careless use of words at best, or at worst gives President Putin carte blanche to do as he pleases as the West wants to unseat him.

I think it’s a dead cert that the only part of the speech that the Russian media will air will be that small snippet, showing the Russian people that their leader is acting in their best interests against the war mongers of the Western World.

Putin totally controls the m s media in Russia, so it would make little difference. They only ever hear what Putin wants them to hear.

Yes, he mis-spoke. It will make little difference to the course of the war, that we are by-proxy fighting.

Do not let such a small incident divide, focus on the good bits of the speech, of which there were many.

Putin is in the wrong, no one in their right mind could agree with what he is doing.

POTUS insinuating that he (Putin) should not remain in power was a careless use of words at best, or at worst gives President Putin carte blanche to do as he pleases as the West wants to unseat him.

I think it’s a dead cert that the only part of the speech that the Russian media will air will be that small snippet, showing the Russian people that their leader is acting in their best interests against the war mongers of the Western World.

Yes you are right, and as I said it was unfortunate, but I honestly don’t think that it will make a fart-icle of difference to Ukraine.

What we have to focus on is the evil being done by Putin, and not a mis+spoken word by the leader of the free world.

It is so important not to over-react at such a difficult time.

It is absolutely important that when faced with such evil we remain a closed and tight force letting nothing divide us.

If you listen to Trump and his speeches lately that is exactly what he is trying to do, so typical of the populist agenda.

WWM2 I agree that the rest of the speech was excellent. But there is no glossing over what he said about Putin not remaining in power, whether we agree with him or not.

It was an inflammatory thing to say, no excuses, and he should have known better.

If he had said something like "Authoritarianism is not acceptable in the modern world", we'd all have agreed. Saying the leader of another country should no longer be in power is inflammatory and is just not on unless we are trying to achieve regime change. Which is a whole different scenario to the one we are in now.

DaisyAnne ?

volver I do agree that it was an unfortunate off script remark, but I thought the whole tone of the speech excellent.

It is what Europe and in particular Ukraine wants to hear.

Yes, now is not the time for inflammatory remarks, but in the short or long term these remarks will make no difference. Biden was merely saying what so many in the world think, about all the authoritarian dictators, and indeed the authoritarian populists.

I whole heartedly agree volver.

It does seem that some have forgotten Biden has more than one audience and that one of them is Ukraine. Perhaps it isn't Biden who has the problem.

Biden said that...