Kate & Will's Caribbean Trip

Sparklefizz

^To my mind, it’s time to end it whenever the Queen is no longer with us.^

No wonder she doesn't want to be seen in a wheelchair!!

I was t suggesting we ended the Queen, merely the monarchy. In what way would a reference in any way impact upon the Queen, other than if the vote was for a republic, she could actually retire like everyone else?

There are 11 standing for the French presidency!

Gosh - you mean they are getting a choice about their Head of Government? Just like we do?

Wow, if only we got that about our Head of State...

I'll say this again...

Head of State isn't the same as Head of Government. We could have both. Like we do today. Like Germany. (And please, no disingenuous comments about Germany's history, we all know that there is a strong feeling amongst GNers that Germany, or anywhere else really, is all well and good, but they're not British, don't you know?)

If William thinks he'll be such a good HoS when the time comes, he could stand. Instead of just assuming that we all think he's the best candidate.

It’s been a disaster imho.

And if William was voted in as HofS, at least he’d be entitled to retire.

Rosalyn69

It’s been a disaster imho.

It certainly looks that way doesn’t it Rosalyn?

Re Jamaica...

not least as a bulwark against overmighty politicians.

Could someone explain how that works please? Seeing as how she can't even prevent the UK's politicians illegally proroguing parliament?

I look at America and their Presidents, and shudder to think of it here.
All the same, our monarchy does need to change, starting with embarrassing Royal tours.
What would London be without all the pageantry though? Just another big city. A president wouldn't have the appeal.

America has a different governmental system.

Do people really not get that?

What would London be without all the pageantry though?

Bit like Paris. They seem to manage fine.

Disaster tour

Monarchy gives all power to Government she can only do what PM asks that's why queen did not prevent the UK's politicians illegally proroguing parliament. She has no role pointless and powerless.

That's why we need to elect our own HoS

We could still have pageantry as other countries do with a president.

The other side of the coin is that under the present system a person is forced to become the monarch due to an accident of birth. The Queen's father didn't want to be king but had no choice. How can it be fair to force generations of a family to live their lives under the intense scrutiny of the great British public? Instead of getting rid of them give the monarch a say in whether or not they are willing to take it on. Set them free to choose I say.

Grany

Disaster tour

Monarchy gives all power to Government she can only do what PM asks that's why queen did not prevent the UK's politicians illegally proroguing parliament. She has no role pointless and powerless.

That's why we need to elect our own HoS

We could still have pageantry as other countries do with a president.

I read a rather interesting article about the pageantry, I'll try to dig out a link.

Basically it was showing that, at the height of its colonial power, Britain was actually very poor at pageantry (there was a quote from one of Victoria's ministers saying - in 19th century language - someone always cocks it up).

The rise in the 'quality' of our pageantry mirrors the decline in our power.

I don’t think Charles will refuse, it would seem that he can’t wait and I don’t think William would either, maybe the youngsters might.
But it’s a life of extreme privilege why would they willingly give it up? and I can’t see any British PM wanting to go down in History for abolishing the Monarchy.

I don’t think Charles is longing for his mother to die,

I didn’t say he wants her to die, if she retired he’d be on that throne before it got cold.

I think that history will show that Elizabeth 11 was the last accepted monarch.

This anachronistic system will begin to fade away on her death.

There were two photos in the Guardian today.

The first of the Queen and DoE in the 1950’s Jamaica standing in a vehicle inspecting something.

The second was on PW with K in an identical vehicle, standing making an inspection of something in Jamaica.

Apart from the women’s fashion there is no difference.

No movement or change since the 1950s

Oopsadaisy1

I didn’t say he wants her to die, if she retired he’d be on that throne before it got cold.

How do you know?

To those criticising the William and Kate's itinerary, you do know that they won't have devised it themselves; they weren't going on holiday and able to chose what they wanted to visit or do. Scuba diving in Belize could very well have been chosen by the Belize government as an opportunity to showcase the country's visitor attractions (tourism being a major part of their economy). A royal visit is a good publicity vehicle.

And until we know just who was responsible for the open top Landrover idea, the UK govt or the Jamaican govt, it's really not possible to say whether it was a diplomatic boo boo or just a reference back to William's grandparents' visit.

Planning a royal tour, this from 2019:

Royal tours can take up to a year to plan, and are either instigated by the U.K. government, or by an invitation from the host country. The itinerary is put together based on whatever matters of national importance the host government would like to draw attention to, while also incorporating some of the visiting royal's personal interests.

www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a10309303/royal-tour-planning-process/

I haven't followed this tour particularly, not being very interested, but it seems to me that the scuba diving has really upset many people on here. I fail to understand why.

Johnny Dymond (sp?) on the BBC talked about the how the trip will have been planned and approved by the Cambridge's PR team. They haven't had to organise one for two years and seem to have lost the knack.

For me, it doesn't matter who planned the tour or what they were trying to achieve with it. It has been a disaster.

Regarding the scuba driving; usually the Royals turn up at whatever charity or cause is being focused on and nod and ask relevant (scripted) questions. But all they managed this time was to look like privileged tourists.

And we should remember, the "host" country didn't invite them. They invited themselves. Like Elizabeth I making a progress.

I think W & C haven't put a foot wrong, is there anything C can't do well (scuba diving etc). But it is all so predictable, even PW's speeches. I am bored with it.

Grandma70 we will wait and see shall we?

I know what I know ?

I have always thought that a monarch was preferable to an elected head of state but this latest royal tour has caused me to have a rethink.

Seeing Kate in a dress that must have cost a fortune then hearing a young mum saying she only put the lights on when absolutely necessary made me feel a bit nauseous.

Whitewavemark2

I think that history will show that Elizabeth 11 was the last accepted monarch.

This anachronistic system will begin to fade away on her death.

Hopefully.

Irrespective of one's views on monarchy versus republic, it cannot be denied that this Royal Tour is a bit of a disaster. We are no longer in the 1950s and perhaps some of the old guard at the palace need to wake up to this. All this traditional dancing in front of people is belittling and patronising as is streets lined with flag waving school children. Tedious in the extreme for all parties

Annieback the point is we don’t get a choice. It’s Charles like it or not, unlike voting for a president that can be voted out.