Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

Equality with whom? - Equality. With other humans. Treated equally. Equal rights to healthcare, employment, essential services.

Established by what means? - Legally and in society.

These are core tenets of feminist. And this is why, as an intersectional feminist, I believe these should be extended these to all.

Oh God forbid there might be disagreement!!

True enough Galaxy. But unless GN is going to be a GGJ only space, there has to be room for *civil discussion.

Civil discussion is difficult when people are uncivil and constantly refer to others in blanket terms, like GC whether they claim to be or not.
Difficult when posters persistently aver that a lie is the truth. Some posters shout (capitals) that TWAW. I can more truthfully and accurately answer you
Trans Women Are Transwomen.
That’s not harmful to anyone. It’s not discriminatory because it’s the truth.

Today I read that transactivists have said that a Zoom conference run by Great Ormond Street about gender dysphoria is "unsafe" for them as there are other participants taking part who's views don't echo theirs!

'Deliberate and orchestrated'?? Really? So nobody else is entitled to have a point or to dare to disagree? Reminds me of something...

personal attacks and at times personal insults honestly where were these ? I guess I must have missed them. I’ve admittedly left threads because a)I’m confused about self identifying, intersexual feminism etc. and b) as I said before you and others are so quick to call posters transphobic when they express their doubts rather than answering and explaining. Eg Adunas post ?

Urmstongran

Trans protesters shout down a feminist group meeting discussing single-sex spaces is Manchester yesterday.
Feminist campaigners wanting to discuss single-sex spaces was hijacked by trans activists, reportedly forcing police to intervene and help attendees leave the venue.

Thanks urmstongran, one of those (rare) occasions when we agree on politics.

I know it’s a hot topic but we should be able to talk about it without being unpleasant
Yes indeed we should but it works both ways. It’s the abuse from a noisy, abusive group of transactivists that is a key factor in the unease expressed by those of us dismissed as Gender Critical. We are the wrong kind of feminist. We don’t care about the rights of trans people. Not true of course but repeated endlessly.

I dont think its a GC only space. I see feisty debates on royalty, politics, dogs (it gets very heated over dogs), I dont see anyone claiming to be silenced on those threads because there are differences of opinions.

I do not think that the small percentage of trans womens (1% of population I believe, happy to be corrected) rights should ride rough shod over natal born women.

Women have been fighting for years and years for their safe places, and we are not about to see them disappear or be opened up to men.

I disagree with some of your views Gagajo. Doesn't mean I'm transphobic or I want the debate or you closed down. If anything, the debate should be wider and more transparent then maybe some concensus can be reached.
I can't stand human beings inflicting hurt on other human beings. I couldn't give a FF what anyone identifies as but when some evil shit of a human being uses the rights of identifying as Trans, whether they truly are or not, to gain access to rape someone it's just wrong. How do we put in place a safeguarding system where there is no transphobic bias? Genuinely?

Galaxy

I think asking questions is a fairly legitimate form of debate. So if I say but how will that work in practice is that demanding answers.
One of the reasons that there are lots of voices in favour of single sex spaces is that GN is an offshoot of MN, and that is where most of the discussion around single sex spaces occurs.

True enough Galaxy. But unless GN is going to be a GC only space, there has to be room for civil discussion.

Mollygo

adaunas
I don't come on GN very often, but you sound quite aggrieved. So when you say trans equality, what do you mean?
Equality with whom?
Established by what means?

Here’s a newish poster asking just 2 questions. I’d have thought you’d have been rushing to answer, but. . .

I’d like to know
Equality with whom?
Established by what means?

I think asking questions is a fairly legitimate form of debate. So if I say but how will that work in practice is that demanding answers.
One of the reasons that there are lots of voices in favour of single sex spaces is that GN is an offshoot of MN, and that is where most of the discussion around single sex spaces occurs.

What does OP want ? No discussion ?

Discussion is what the forums are for! But the hostility, goading and at times outright attacks drive people who otherwise might want to join in away.

Of course, not all posters respond in this way. But the ganging up on members that disagree, personal attacks and at times personal insults that creep in, not only stop those who are trying to comment away, but also deter any additional posters. And I think it's deliberate. When there is no voice to counter those who shout loudest, it appears as if there is no counter argument at all.

I know it's a 'hot' topic, but we should be able to talk about it without it being unpleasant. Demanding answers, being rude to each other, just... why?

Trans protesters shout down a feminist group meeting discussing single-sex spaces is Manchester yesterday.
Feminist campaigners wanting to discuss single-sex spaces was hijacked by trans activists, reportedly forcing police to intervene and help attendees leave the venue.

GagaJo

Just putting it up to counteract the loudest voices we have on GN on this topic.

I'm not aggrieved at all. I just think it's important to have a balance of opinions.

I’d really like your thoughts on my post Gagajo.

Rosie51

Personal attacks? Would that be the GagaJo who labelled this transwoman as "a nut job cis man"? The wrong sort of transwoman who was invited to headline a poetry reading event? Such short memories some have. The organisers of this 'celebrating women event' obviously concurred that this transwoman was kosher.

Back of the net own goal ??????
Well done Rosie

Just putting it up to counteract the loudest voices we have on GN on this topic.

I'm not aggrieved at all. I just think it's important to have a balance of opinions.

It’s pretty clear that trans activists won’t tolerate discussion and cancel (or attempt to) anyone that dares to question their standpoint on trans rights. Is the OP wanting the same on here? From the amount of deletions on a thread the other day. I’d think it pretty obvious who was being censored and silenced.

Deliberate and orchestrated silencing ? I don’t see that, I really don’t. What I do see sometimes is an immediate instant assumption that anyone expressing doubts and concerns about some TRANSACTIVISTS must be transphobic. I’m not transphobic and nor are many who have questions.
I have said this before but get no response from OP.
What does OP want ? No discussion ?

I’ve been reading up on the term ‘intersectional feminism’.

To my mind, the connection between trans rights and intersectional feminism are being overplayed by contributors to the trans threads on Gransnet.

I have often assumed from reading the many trans threads on here, that trans rights were a central tenet of intersectional feminism.
So far, I haven’t found anything that confirms this.

Isn’t the correct term for feminists who believe that TWAW, ‘trans feminism’?

adaunas

I don't come on GN very often, but you sound quite aggrieved. So when you say trans equality, what do you mean?
Equality with whom?
Established by what means?

Adaunas I hope you weren’t expecting a proper answer to your questions from the OP and those who shall not be named.

Elizabeth27
However most trans people want to live does not hurt anyone else, why some people and some trans have to be so cruel and nasty is beyond me. Would be more accurate. But since you’ve raised it, I truly envy those who have never suffered at the hands of a male trans person, who is worse than an ordinary male because he is pretending to be something that he isn’t, often to get him access to the place where he can cause damage to women.
It isn’t true that ostriches bury their heads in the sand to ignore a problem. Shame it is true of some humans.

Seriously, I think that anyone who reads the threads in question will be able to make up their own minds as to the source of any insults, any twisting of words and any animosity.

There is no orchestrated silencing, deliberate or otherwise - there is disagreement that 'gender' should take precedence over sex, and that biology can be thwarted so that simply saying 'I am a woman/man' will make someone change into the opposite sex from the one into which they were born.

Many of those who believe that biological sex should not take second place to 'gender' declarations also believe that woman should have safe places where male-bodied people are not allowed - such as prison cells, hospital wards, rape suites, domestic violence refuges and so on, and when we post about these beliefs we are called 'transphobic' and worse, in what could be described as an orchestrated attempt to silence us.

This does not mean that we think that ‘trans = sex-offender’ - not at all. It means that sex-offenders can pose as trans and gain access to victims that way. It also removes the right of women from certain religions and cultures to access those spaces, and removes informed consent from all of us.

Anyway, this thread has clearly been timed to start at the beginning of the weekend, when HQ are maybe less likely to see it, and yes, MissA, I think you are right that it will get heated.

Other than the obvious - creating more animosity - I'm not sure what it will achieve, as there are at least three other 'live' threads on the subject, but I suppose it will give more people the chance to observe the dynamics of these threads and judge for themselves.

Maybe I would rather stay on this thread now though because while I can see some validity in fears some women do have, every thread about a single issue becomes about every single negative thought people have about trans people and that is a clear picture of discrimination against trans people in general.