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What is a woman to me?
I feel in modern times women are being reduced to sex categories, ignoring our vast and varied biology. The very biology that for years has allowed women to be stereotyped, seen as weaker and even seen as so great in difference to other women, women were enslaved and sold.
Biology as diverse as a woman's has caused so many non white women pain and fear yet the biology of women is now somehow fixed?
Sojourner Truth "Ain't I a woman?"
Yet we are all women and that must be respected while acknowledging our differences, our separate struggles, our journeys to claiming our womanhood. The discriminations other women have faced that we don't and the discriminations other women have faced that we do because of biological diversity.
Some simply see women as one simple biological fact, men and women. Nothing else.
Some of us see it as a rainbow, A beautiful spectrum of difference and diversity. Men, women, trans, non binary people, all valid.
I wasn't born a woman, I was born a baby, I became a child, on an equal footing with boys, running and jumping and getting dirty in the mud. What was there to tell us apart but the hair and clothes chosen for us by adults?
I wasn't born a woman, society told me I was one when I reached physical maturity. Society told me what to wear, how to act.
Am I a woman? I choose my own hair, my own clothes, my personality and how to express myself in the ways that other women do that I enjoy as an individual.
Can anyone look at me and declare my womanhood undoubtedly? Probably but only because that is what I choose and how I express myself. Is that true of all people? No.
You see everything about who I am as a woman is on the inside. Its in my thoughts, my opinions, my appreciation of beautiful things, the way I would like to look, the clothes I would like to wear, in the things I appreciate about friends and family, the strength I have for my children, the love and the pure determination to be a good mother.
I am a woman on the inside, not the outside. That's how I identify. I can change the outside. I can gain or lose weight, I can wear more or less make up, I can cut my hair or grow it out. I can have my body surgically altered but who I am on the inside remains the same.
I am one woman amongst a world of biologically diverse women, not a single one of us looks exactly the same, we don't all choose to express our gender identity visually at all, yet still identify as women.
It is the same for trans women.
I am a woman and so is she.
Actually I believe a significant number of pregnancies are IVF or started in clinics these days. So not really just penis which impregnates.
And isn't the clitoris exactly the same tissue type as a penis?
trisher
Actually I believe a significant number of pregnancies are IVF or started in clinics these days. So not really just penis which impregnates.
And isn't the clitoris exactly the same tissue type as a penis?
You try ejaculating semen, or urinating from a clitoris, think you'll wait a long time.
Nobody not equipped with a penis and testicles is capable of producing the semen used to fertilise an ovum, regardless if that is done by sexual intercourse or by other methods.
It's a tired argument this tissue type. Yes ovaries and testes are the same tissue type too, they develop into different organs depending on the hormone influence they come under. Your arms have the same tissue type as your legs, but you don't say they're exactly the same do you?
It's a tired argument this tissue type. Yes ovaries and testes are the same tissue type too, they develop into different organs depending on the hormone influence they come under. Your arms have the same tissue type as your legs, but you don't say they're exactly the same do you?
No but nor would I say they were completely different and say my arms are OK but my legs keep on attacking people.
Milk comes from a cow but I wouldn't say it had anything to do with putting it in my tea.
???
Your arms have the same tissue type as your legs, but you don't say they're exactly the same do you?
Well I wouldn’t, but . . .
I used to think all these problems would be solved by using the scientific terms, male and female instead of men and women.
Cynically, I think we would see a certain group of TW e fãs suddenly claiming to be TF instead.
Milk comes from a cow but I wouldn't say it had anything to do with putting it in my tea. not sure the equivalence of this but neither would you say it's the same as comes from a dog would you? And I assume you don't expect to get milk from a bull? Even if it identifies as a cow?
timetogo2016
I was born a baby girl, i grew to be a little girl then became a woman.
My brother was born a baby boy,grew to be a young lad and then became a man.
I wear female clothing,he wears male clothing.
That`s the nature of being a human male/female.
Yes - re born a girl or a boy and grew into a man or a woman
But the male/female clothes are a social construct not a biological fact and therefore not "the nature of being a human male/female"
Clothes are such a red herring, though. If you look at robes of the past (still there in the Church), or at jeans, or at Saudi men's clothing, or at shalwar khamis, or any number of examples it is clear that what is considered suitable for men and women changes over place and time. They are not what being a man or woman is about (as I realise you are saying, Madgran).
The bit I'm not sure about, after a billion threads, is what is it that people say is the essence of being a woman (or a man)? It's clearly about far more than fashion, so what is it, if it's not fetishistic more often than not?
If anything was ever going to change my mind about this it would be if someone could explain that to me in a way I understand (ie not 'it's just a feeling', or similar).
Rosie51
^Milk comes from a cow but I wouldn't say it had anything to do with putting it in my tea.^ not sure the equivalence of this but neither would you say it's the same as comes from a dog would you? And I assume you don't expect to get milk from a bull? Even if it identifies as a cow?
Rosie51 it's the end of a discussion about if a penis is necessary for a pregnancy.
The penis delivers semen, the cow milk. Neither needs to be present for the end product. A baby or a cup of tea.
I think some lesbians who have babies wouldn't want to think about a penis being involved.
Thanks for this trisher
I think some lesbians who have babies wouldn't want to think about a penis being involved.
To be honest, I wasn’t thinking about a penis at the time either, nor a turkey baster.
Should anyone be interested, Kathleen Stock's book Material Girls: why reality matters for feminism Kindle edition is selling for 99p on @mazon.
www.amazon.co.uk/Material-Girls-Kathleen-Stock/dp/0349726604?tag=gransnetforum-21
She is the academic who resigned from Sussex Uni last after a witch hunt against her. She's now at a new university in the US.
*last year
trisher
Rosie51
Milk comes from a cow but I wouldn't say it had anything to do with putting it in my tea. not sure the equivalence of this but neither would you say it's the same as comes from a dog would you? And I assume you don't expect to get milk from a bull? Even if it identifies as a cow?
Rosie51 it's the end of a discussion about if a penis is necessary for a pregnancy.
The penis delivers semen, the cow milk. Neither needs to be present for the end product. A baby or a cup of tea.
I think some lesbians who have babies wouldn't want to think about a penis being involved.
I know lesbians who have been called transphobic for not wanting sex with a penis, never mind a baby.
Baggs
Should anyone be interested, Kathleen Stock's book Material Girls: why reality matters for feminism Kindle edition is selling for 99p on @mazon.
]]
She is the academic who resigned from Sussex Uni last after a witch hunt against her. She's now at a new university in the US.
To be honest, I was surprised to hear she was at Sussex at the very beginnings of the controversy. They were leaders in Queer / Trans theory many moons ago when I was there. She will have been a square peg in a round hole.
"She will have been a square peg in a round hole."
Surely universities need a few square pegs though?
Ilovecheese
"She will have been a square peg in a round hole."
Surely universities need a few square pegs though?
Yes, probably. But as the only one, with such an emotive issue, I'm not sure it's possible to effect change against a culture which is very established and has been in place for a long time.
A bit like a sole working class professor in a very middle/upper class seat of learning, or a professor of colour, trying to teach Critical Race Theory in a old school, 'dead white men' teaching environment.
I'm not sure it's possible to effect change against a culture which is very established and has been in place for a long time.
Which pretty much sums up the whole scientific and biological belief that a man cannot be a woman no matter what he wears, thinks, feels, says or does. And that's been around for a hell of a lot longer than a provincial uni.
Fair comment about the clothing.
Every time I read this thread title I burst into the Helen Reddy song.
So there you go, OP. What is Woman? Hellen Reddy is woman.
Ah Helen Reddy, now there was a woman with a lovely voice. Personally, I think of Billy Joel and "She's always a woman to me".
Ah yes, Billy Joel.
How about I'm Every Woman by Aretha? An all encompassing song
She will have been a square peg in a round hole
One who was not willing to be squashed into a "round hole" just to keep everyone happy!
timetogo2016
Fair comment about the clothing.
timetogo 
a provincial uni Ah, trying to denigrate a research driven uni, which has led the UK in Queer theory, and has employed some of the best UK writers on the subject. On the basis of it being provincial, aka snobbery.
How about I'm Every Woman by Aretha? An absolute classic Zoe; in fact anything Aretha Franklin ever sang.
I know that I’m Every Woman, and I agree about Aretha.
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