War crimes in Ukraine

Thank you volver looks like the Saudis will hang back until the last minute then up production and price per barrel, they have form on doing this.

From the FT article:

Boris Johnson has failed to secure a commitment from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to raise oil production after a day-long visit to the two Gulf countries.

The UK prime minister was heavily criticised by MPs ahead of his trip to Riyadh after the government executed 81 people on terrorism and related charges at the weekend. But Johnson defended the decision, arguing that as the world’s largest oil exporter, the kingdom was too important to ignore.

Johnson met the Saudi day-to-day ruler Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and signed a memorandum of understanding to set up a strategic partnership council after arriving from the UAE. The prime minister also said Saudi Arabia would be announcing a £1bn investment in Teesside to produce green aviation fuel.

Both Saudi Arabia and the UAE have rebuffed US appeals to increase oil production to offset the loss of Russian oil. Washington has had strained relations with Saudi Arabia since Joe Biden arrived in the White House after he vowed to reassess relations with the kingdom over human rights concerns.

But Johnson, who is seen as having a better relationship with Prince Mohammed, also appears to have walked away empty-handed.

Looks as if NATO is more than willing to expand its membership, which will not please Russia, but no question yet that Ukraine would be welcome, which I think is a big mistake.

volver

www.ft.com/content/7d8f3962-e88a-489a-b98d-312f3a82a174

SA said no.

It’s behind a paywall.

It’s all well and good to condemn the war crimes by President Putin’s troops, but it’s time to do more than tut the rest of the world has to wake up and realise that we all need to take a hit and stop buying fossil fuels from Russia.

Jaberwok

DaisyAnne, like everyone on here I am entitled to post what comments I please provided they don't break the rules governing these threads,and it is not for you to dictate otherwise,so perhaps you will desist in your attempts to do so. I do not agree with your comment and I am entitled to say just that. Yes I would be prepared to have my utilities reduced to help the people of Ukraine. I was an adult with young children during the three day week restrictions in 1973/74 , and you'd be amazed at how easy it was to cope even in January once you got used to the system. Obviously people these days would consider it an enormous deprivation having been spoon fed for donkeys years,but actually it's not, nothing like as bad as being bombed, shelled,raped, murdered, kidnapped ,without mercy when nothing will save you, age, sex, illness nothing

Your halo outshines us all Jaberwok.

www.ft.com/content/7d8f3962-e88a-489a-b98d-312f3a82a174

SA said no.

Oh yeah, buy from Saudi Arabia. That'll fix it. (They said no, didn't they?)

And there isn't a lake of diesel sitting in the middle of the USA waiting for us to buy some.

Whitewavemark2

The PM came back from SA with nothing, zilch.

Source of your information please.

The PM came back from SA with nothing, zilch.

Casdon

The thing is GrannyGravy13* that the UK is also still dependent on Russian oil, so the pot is calling the kettle black if we condemn European countries who have much less alternative than we do.
.This little gem was hidden in the BBC News the other day.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60948439

Sorry we should stop imports immediately.

Hopefully the PM’s meeting in Saudi Arabia was successful and negate the need to buy anything from Russia. In the meantime we should up our imports from USA.

I wish I understood international economics and geopolitics like some other Grans on here. I must start reading the Daily Mail and the Express. And watching GB News.

DaisyAnne, like everyone on here I am entitled to post what comments I please provided they don't break the rules governing these threads,and it is not for you to dictate otherwise,so perhaps you will desist in your attempts to do so. I do not agree with your comment and I am entitled to say just that. Yes I would be prepared to have my utilities reduced to help the people of Ukraine. I was an adult with young children during the three day week restrictions in 1973/74 , and you'd be amazed at how easy it was to cope even in January once you got used to the system. Obviously people these days would consider it an enormous deprivation having been spoon fed for donkeys years,but actually it's not, nothing like as bad as being bombed, shelled,raped, murdered, kidnapped ,without mercy when nothing will save you, age, sex, illness nothing

MaizieD

^Sanctions hurt, and if the EU is serious regarding sanctioning Russia they should have spent the last 40+ days sourcing gas/oil from elsewhere.^

And who is saying that they're not?

www.euronews.com/green/2022/03/11/europe-scrambles-to-keep-the-lights-on-as-it-sidelines-russian-gas

Trying to reduce reliance on Russian gas by 2023 right at the beginning of the article.

Hopefully the war will be over by then.

The thing is GrannyGravy13* that the UK is also still dependent on Russian oil, so the pot is calling the kettle black if we condemn European countries who have much less alternative than we do.
.This little gem was hidden in the BBC News the other day.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60948439

Sanctions hurt, and if the EU is serious regarding sanctioning Russia they should have spent the last 40+ days sourcing gas/oil from elsewhere.

Sorry GG13, but surely you can't think that Germany can replace 40% of its fuel needs in just 40 days?

And I'm afraid its just a bit easier for a software and services company to withdraw from Russia than for an economy to completely renew its fuel supply needs.

This is the article I read: news.sky.com/story/the-west-is-chipping-away-at-russias-ability-to-finance-its-violent-campaign-in-ukraine-12582864

Sanctions hurt, and if the EU is serious regarding sanctioning Russia they should have spent the last 40+ days sourcing gas/oil from elsewhere.

And who is saying that they're not?

www.euronews.com/green/2022/03/11/europe-scrambles-to-keep-the-lights-on-as-it-sidelines-russian-gas

Russians are using mobile crematoriums to cover up war crimes, claim Mariupol authorities.

volver

GrannyGravy13

Since the invasion of Ukraine the EU has paid over £18 billion euros to Russia for gas, along with many billions for oil. Effectively keeping the Russian war machine afloat.

President Putin is the aggressor but however you look at it the EU is enabling him.

Its absolutely unfair to say that the EU is enabling Russia. "Enabling" implies an intention or a desire to let things happen. And I'm sure you don't believe that is true GG13

Russia's economy is forecast to contract by something like 10% this year, more than ever before (I'll try to find the article I read). Everyone's favourite bete noire, Germany, rely hugely on Russian fuel. It's not possible to do without all of the suppliers overnight or not only will we have disasters in Ukraine, we will have people dying in Germany as the power goes off and industry closes down. And its not like we stop paying Russia today and they pull out of Ukraine tomorrow.

So it is naive to say that the EU is keeping the Russian War machine afloat. Its going to take months to extricate ourselves from Russian involvement. And I mean ourselves; the UK is hardly squeaky clean in this, but its easy to think that the world works as easily as "turn off the gas, and the killing stops".

I didn’t say it would be easy volver , but there was a GN lynch mob on here the other day over a politicians wife having a 0.9% interest in an Indian Company who still had an office in Russia. This was without knowing if they were taking/receiving any monies from this company since the invasion.

Sanctions hurt, and if the EU is serious regarding sanctioning Russia they should have spent the last 40+ days sourcing gas/oil from elsewhere.

Yes, I am aware that the majority of Countries with the resources that Europe need are questionable, but we have to pick the least questionable and that rules out Russia on every single level.

GrannyGravy13

Since the invasion of Ukraine the EU has paid over £18 billion euros to Russia for gas, along with many billions for oil. Effectively keeping the Russian war machine afloat.

President Putin is the aggressor but however you look at it the EU is enabling him.

Its absolutely unfair to say that the EU is enabling Russia. "Enabling" implies an intention or a desire to let things happen. And I'm sure you don't believe that is true GG13

Russia's economy is forecast to contract by something like 10% this year, more than ever before (I'll try to find the article I read). Everyone's favourite bete noire, Germany, rely hugely on Russian fuel. It's not possible to do without all of the suppliers overnight or not only will we have disasters in Ukraine, we will have people dying in Germany as the power goes off and industry closes down. And its not like we stop paying Russia today and they pull out of Ukraine tomorrow.

So it is naive to say that the EU is keeping the Russian War machine afloat. Its going to take months to extricate ourselves from Russian involvement. And I mean ourselves; the UK is hardly squeaky clean in this, but its easy to think that the world works as easily as "turn off the gas, and the killing stops".

volver

Jaberwok no matter how often anyone tries to lay blame at the feet of the US, the EU, and Germany in particular, it doesn't make it true.

The only people with responsibility for this are Putin and his acolytes.

Exactly.

The more you deflect the blame Jaberwok, the more you help Putin. Please just stop it.

Jaberwok

It's a pity that the EU especially Germany cannot bite the bullet and ban the importing of oil, has and coal that are clearly helping Putin fund this war and these appalling atrocities. Surely sovereign EU member states could act independently? Why don't they? Money clearly overrides people. Shameful organisation, thank god we're not members any more.

Ok. So if we were dependent upon Russia for oil and gas more than we are now,would you be happy to have manufacturing go into free fall? Have your heat and light limited? It is unfair to demand of others what we would not do ourselves. Germany are in a dilemma that's for sure.

The last figures I could find regarding oil exports from Russia to EU are 2.3 billion barrels a day, over half of Russias oil exports.

Since the invasion of Ukraine the EU has paid over £18 billion euros to Russia for gas, along with many billions for oil. Effectively keeping the Russian war machine afloat.

President Putin is the aggressor but however you look at it the EU is enabling him.

Jaberwok no matter how often anyone tries to lay blame at the feet of the US, the EU, and Germany in particular, it doesn't make it true.

The only people with responsibility for this are Putin and his acolytes.

Allsorts, I totally sympathise with you. I feel the same that I can barely bear to hear about all these atrocities let alone see photographs, and yet I feel I must. This is why I feel so angry with the EU, Germany in particular for putting money before suffering people. Hand wringing and vague promises for six months time just won't do. By that time Ukraine will be a country of rubble, it's people reduced to ? It's just too shocking to contemplate. I would have thought that the annexing of Crimea would have rung a few warnings bells in the West as well as the incursion by Russia into Eastern Ukraine, but no, Europe and the US in its usual cavalier way knew better, when actually they didn't, and this is why Ukraine is now in this dreadful situation which we cannot, or being totally reliant on Russia, will not do anything concrete to alleviate.