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War crimes in Ukraine

(235 Posts)
maddyone Sun 03-Apr-22 11:23:08

The invasion of Ukraine and the subsequent bombings and acts of war have sickened the entire population of the UK and other countries, but this morning I heard something that seems to plumb new depths. My son arrived with my grandson this morning, having taken part in Park Run (grandchild got a PB today👏) and my son son told me that he’d seen an item about Ukraine in which during the withdrawal from the Kviv area, the Russians had apparently shot all/many of the men between the ages of 14 and 60. They had been shot in the back of the head apparently and the bodies left by the side of the road. This is a blatant war crime and despite all the other atrocities happening in Ukraine I felt absolutely shocked and sickened. I commented that this was what happened frequently under the Nazis in WW2. I haven’t seen it reported though and wondered if anyone else has seen a report. Is this what we can now expect from the Russians in this desperately tragic theatre of war?

GrannyGravy13 Sun 03-Apr-22 11:28:42

It is absolutely abhorrent maddyone

They have also discovered part burnt bodies of females who have been raped left by the side of roads.

It was on the BBC this morning

MaizieD Sun 03-Apr-22 11:36:47

I spent some time on the Mumsnet Ukraine thread yesterday evening and went to bed utterly sickened by what I had been reading about the atrocities in the occupied towns. It wasn't that I had been previously unaware, because I had already seen so much on twitter, it just hit me very badly.

But, in all this, I can't help thinking that there have been other atrocities perpetuated world wide that we have barely concerned ourselves with. We seem so helpless in the face of violence and brutality.

BTW The Mumsnet Ukraine threads are excellent. This is the latest:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4519959-Ukraine-Invasion-Part-18?watched=1

Doodledog Sun 03-Apr-22 11:38:28

It is no surprise that this sort of thing has been going on. It would have surprised me if it hadn't, and I dread to think what the women have been going through.

There is no excuse for it - none - but war is horrible, and always has been.

maddyone Sun 03-Apr-22 12:47:31

I know it’s war, and terrible things happen in war, but I can’t understand the mindset of soldiers who rape and execute civilians. Why isn’t the fact that they are at war enough, why do they terrorise and hurt innocent civilians?

Doodledog Sun 03-Apr-22 12:51:18

I wonder if they have to become dehumanised before they can take part? If it's acceptable to kill, and maim, and destroy (which at some level they have to believe in order to do it) then what can seriously be off the table?

maddyone Sun 03-Apr-22 13:09:28

You could be right Doodledog. I cannot believe anyone in their right mind could do these things, but we know they do. Maybe they become desensitised to these horrors.

eazybee Sun 03-Apr-22 13:55:28

All that can be done is for every piece of evidence to be recorded and dated and publicised, particularly in Russia, although many won't accept it, and some of the perpetrators will eventually be brought to justice.

The mills of God grind slow but they grind exceeding small

GrannyGravy13 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:04:06

As a parent of a serving officer in our armed forces, I can honestly say that I haven’t heard them or their friends ever discussing becoming desensitised to what they witness.

Bosnia was brutal, and has had a lasting effect on those who served there.

I think it’s all to do with the discipline and training and lower ranking Russian troops appear to have little of either.

JaneJudge Sun 03-Apr-22 14:13:09

It is an unbelievable level of depravity shown by a developed countries army, surely? angry

I can't even read the mumsnet thread

GrannyGravy13 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:22:34

JaneJudge

It is an unbelievable level of depravity shown by a developed countries army, surely? angry

I can't even read the mumsnet thread

Cannot disagree, but having read several articles on how the Russian recruits and conscripts are treated in their basic training it’s a recipe for disaster.

They are abused and brainwashed to the point of no return, beaten, made to eat faeces and drink urine. That is not the way a modern civilised country trains it’s forces.

PECS Sun 03-Apr-22 14:29:30

War is brutal. Dehumanising your enemy, especially in the eyes of troops and to some degree in the civilian population too, enables those atrocities to be carried out. That, and creating blind obedience & fear in your militia i.e. if I don't comply I become the victim. It has been happening for years in every war since WW1 in Asia, Africa, Middle East & now probably because it is easier for us to empathise with Ukrainians it is shocking us!

JaneJudge Sun 03-Apr-22 14:31:40

Oh bloody hell, it is just brutal.

AGAA4 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:38:16

Russia has tried to pass this off as fake news saying that the bodies were moving. The BBC has checked and says there is no movement. The men had their hands tied too.
The Russian army are thugs and the level of brutality is appalling.

Rosalyn69 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:39:41

Just dreadful.

Doodledog Sun 03-Apr-22 14:40:52

Yes, PECS. That's what I meant. That, plus the fact that the winning side gets to tell the stories makes it easy to think that 'we' would never do that sort of thing. 'We' would (or it would be done in our name).

volver Sun 03-Apr-22 14:42:26

I haven't read much of this thread because the details are too much to handle. It seems to me, as a lay person, that the whole thing is a war crime. I just hope they are keeping evidence and that we get him.

There was an article on the BBC about a crack Russian regiment that had had many of its soldiers killed. Young men, all of them. For the first time ever when reading about a conflict, I thought, Good. That'll teach them to attack someone else's country. No sympathy.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:44:13

Doodledog

Yes, PECS. That's what I meant. That, plus the fact that the winning side gets to tell the stories makes it easy to think that 'we' would never do that sort of thing. 'We' would (or it would be done in our name).

Are you actually implying that British Service men/women would tie up enemy civilians and shoot them at point blank range in the head, oh and just for kicks rape the local women then try to incinerate the evidence ?

If you are then you are insulting every member of the Armed Forces currently serving in the U.K. angry

Smileless2012 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:44:53

It's evil.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:46:57

There has been videos showing small villages where it was quite clear that the innocent population were used as target practice. There poor bodies laying where they were shot. Men women and children.

War crimes every one.

Whatever the outcome, Putin must not be rewarded for his behaviour by giving home the territory he desires.

AGAA4 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:48:07

I read that some Ukrainians have given poisoned pies to the Russians. Some have died and others in hospital. You would use every weapon available to defeat these usurpers.

Callistemon21 Sun 03-Apr-22 14:56:26

I haven't read the Mumsnet thread but having heard Rohit Kachroo's report the other day about one particular atrocity I felt even more sickened and can't get it out of my mind.
I won't post it on here, even recalling one girl's ordeal makes me weep.

Pure evil.

PECS Sun 03-Apr-22 15:28:10

grannygravy13 I am afraid there are incidents of very inappropriate behaviour by British military in Iraq. Maybe not on the scale that we have witnessed in other conflicts...but we don't always know.
We have to hope & expect our troops behave in an exemplary manner but be prepared to accept the possibility of wrong doing.

MaizieD Sun 03-Apr-22 16:08:32

I saw a twitter thread a few days ago about how the young conscripts to the Russian army are systematically brutalised by beatings, rape, humiliation and similar really appalling treatment. I can't find it again. If it is true then it explains a lot about how they are desensitised to humane feelings.

silverlining48 Sun 03-Apr-22 16:15:26

In every war sexual and other violence is used by any army of any nationality. Twas ever thus. Sad but true. It’s naive to think otherwise.