War crimes in Ukraine

Molisavitch (spelling sorry) was tried, So were many Nazi. I don’t know how Putin could face a war crimes court , Russia is in no way democratic and who /how could he be arrested
It’s so dreadful

Trouble is war crimes never make it to court for many years after the horrors have taken place therefore people like Putin are often not alive to receive the public humiliation and life sentences they deserve.

There really can be no way back for Russia from this, it is bad enough as we all read of the atrocities, and watch it unfolding on our TV night after night, but eventually, it will come to an end, and then the world will have to face up to the reality, countries such as China, India, Hungary, Belarus who may not have actually supported Russia, but have not condemned them either, will be forced to face what the rest of the world has seen. When the trials start, and evidence is given, what then? Will the Russian people finally face the truth of the atrocities committed in their name? Even when the invasion of Ukraine is over, there is still an lot of awful things to be dealt with, the trauma, the rebuilding, the hatred of most of the world. Russia may, should, end up as pariah state and the repercussions, even after the bombings, murders, rapes have stopped are going to be long lasting.

That’s a frightening reminder GillT57 of the power of propaganda, especially on those who want it to be true.

I read yesterday about the paediatrician involved in repairing the bodies of little girls, the oldest aged 10. They had been subject to multiple rapes, their tiny bodies ripped vulva to anus. (Allegedly) by Russian soldiers who people re;or Ted to be on drugs like amphetamine and alcohol. I know that paedophiles can be aroused by infants and toddlers as well as children of any age or gender. I simply find myself unable to understand how a group of men who may be fathers, brothers, uncles can behave like this. Become sexually enraged and aroused. I read that the soldiers are told to see the enemy as animals, as inhuman. Similar to the way the Nazis viewed the Jewish people, people with disabilities, Roma, homosexuals.
As someone posted earlier, a thin veneer indeed

Before we demonise the Russian people for believing the propaganda being fed to them, we need to remind ourselves of the really sick broadcaster, Alex Jones, in USA who insists that the Sandy Hook massacre of primary school children was all staged and the parents of the murdered children are actors. he has been ordered to stop, but some of his followers see this as part of the conspiracy. Compare this in a free society to the Russian people who have been fed propaganda since birth.

maddyone

The BBC reported Zelensky’s visit to the war crimes scenes at Bucha as ‘alleged war crimes.’ Isn’t the body count of hundreds, the shallow graves and the mass graves, plus the evidence of women reporting rapes enough for the BBC? These crimes aren’t ‘alleged,’ they happened and the pictures we’ve all seen show absolutely that they’ve happened.

I think it is just a technicality until there is a conviction or court verdict, although I do agree that it is hard to hear.

Further back than that maddyone, WW1 was the war to end all wars! A forlorn hope indeed. I guess the Russians believe the news their government puts out because to believe anything else is too horrendous. No of course drugs and brainwashing is no excuse, but with ill trained, perhaps inadequately educated easily influenced'cannon fodder' it always has the desired effect. The Russian authorities have a lot to answer for, Putin in particular, which this war has demonstrably exposed.

Just read the climate crisis threads, the old Brexit threads (I think even those people are beginning to see the lies) and the anti-vax threads on this forum, OnwardandUpward.

People will believe a great deal, however gullible it seems to those who would rather deal in facts, if it supports what they want to be true.

One of the good things is that journalists are reporting that these people are "believed to have been killed by Russian troops". We know they are looking for evidence. Sadly though it takes time for evidence to catch up with lies.

I am sure this will seep through to the Russian people but some will never believe or, as has already happened with the Brexit propaganda, it will be re-written or given a nuance it didn't have at a time so the "believers" can live with themselves.

And yet apparently the Russian people believe them. I hope it’s just that they’re too frightened to admit the truth. But they’ve been lied to for years and it amounts to brainwashing. In all my life I never thought we’d see these sorts of atrocities in Europe again. I thought WW2 was supposed to have have been the war to end all wars in Europe. We see appalling wars in other parts of the world, Syria immediately comes to mind, and we are shocked by the brutality, in particular the beheading of people, but we’ve become used to thinking that NATO would protect Europe, but it’s been rendered impotent because of nuclear weapons, or mutually assured destruction. I could weep.

Devastating news from the Ukraine. I don't even have the words.

Something I cannot understand is how the Russians can spread lies that the Ukrainians are killing their own people, that the people in the bombed hospital were actors.... what is wrong with these people that they can tell bare faced lies and believe them??? The Russians did all of these atrocities and more that no one knows yet.

I also hope he and all the rest of them come to trial, I can't see how it could happen but we have to hope it does.

(Sorry about my spelling this morning, I just had to replace the batteries in my keyboard which is my excuse for all the missing letters.)

You’re probably right volver although it irritates me when I’m looking at these appalling pictures. I don’t know if Putin will ever come to trial though. It would make me very happy if he does and has to pay for his crimes.

I would guess that the BBC and all the other sensible news outlets have to be very careful abut what they say, so that if and when Putin and the rest come to trial, they cant use what they say as evidence of any trial being a foregone conclusion.

I am physically sickened by the latest atrocities and the discussion raised about rape being used as a method of warfare.
Nothing new, I know, but I would have hoped the days of “Frau, komm” in a thick Russian accent as described by my mother who lived in Berlin in WWII, were behind us.

Ah, but the BBC thinks it has to be ‘balanced’. ……….BBC just keeping both sides happy.

That’s exactly what I think Maizie. I have no understanding of why the BBC would feel the need to keep Russia ‘happy’ though whilst we’re in the middle of this horrendous tragedy. I wonder if the BBC felt the need to keep Germany happy during WW2?

In my opinion the BBC is being balanced. It has multiple explicit articles and a section fact-checking Russia's claims.

I rely on the BBC as they don't jump in, they report what they know to be fact, they check and then they report again. Other sources steam in and, when they do report the actual truth it has been lost in a sea of 'maybes'.

maddyone

The BBC reported Zelensky’s visit to the war crimes scenes at Bucha as ‘alleged war crimes.’ Isn’t the body count of hundreds, the shallow graves and the mass graves, plus the evidence of women reporting rapes enough for the BBC? These crimes aren’t ‘alleged,’ they happened and the pictures we’ve all seen show absolutely that they’ve happened.

Ah, but the BBC thinks it has to be 'balanced'. Russia is claiming that the massacre is faked and that the Ukrainians did it themselves. BBC just keeping both sides happy?

Heard a bit on news headlines this morning, Ukraine says that what comes out of Mariupol is going to be much worse...

My heart aches for these poor people.

The BBC reported Zelensky’s visit to the war crimes scenes at Bucha as ‘alleged war crimes.’ Isn’t the body count of hundreds, the shallow graves and the mass graves, plus the evidence of women reporting rapes enough for the BBC? These crimes aren’t ‘alleged,’ they happened and the pictures we’ve all seen show absolutely that they’ve happened.

President Zelensky's heartbroken face on the front of the newspapers this morning speaks more than words ever could.

This incredible piece of reporting sums up the reality of this appalling war and the bravery and suffering of the Ukrainian people. Please be warned it is upsetting and is almost unbearable to watch. Jeremy Bowen has said on his Twitter feed that this lady is now being helped by MSF. Thank goodness for them.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60977889

GrannyGravy13 Nooo ! Ohh that is ...well.... i am lost for words. Absolutely heartbreaking.

Here I am sat in my nice warm kitchen thinking about if I have all the ingredients for cooking tomorrow with my 4 yr old GD and there are mothers in Ukraine writing contact details on their precious childs back incase he/she is killed!!!!! Ohhhhh i could cry an ocean....

I have just seen the most dreadful thread on Twitter by a Ukrainian journalist, highlighting that parents are writing kn their young children backs, their name, dare of birth and family contact details if the parents are killed, absolutely heartbreaking ?

DaisyAnne

"Civilisation is a thin veneer". I wonder if we all just got too complacent.

Indeed it is, we are all concentrating on Ukraine currently but there are many other wars taking place where innocent people are being terrorized.

I watch everything possible on the news about the war in ukraine and as I listen and see the reports, tears run down my face, i have no words, just tears.

I feel guilty for waking up to a fresh new day of freedom something that everyone of us takes for granted and then i switch the news on and feel utterly, utterly sad, horrendously sad and utter disbelief that THIS is happening to those poor innocent people of Ukraine, heartbreaking....

There is no excuse.

Could it be that these soldiers who commit these appalling atrocities are on drugs fed to them by their C.O's? that and being endlessly told that they are fighting to liberate Ukraine from Nazis? I have read that this was the case in WW2 with German troops, ( not the Nazi bit) except of course they were, according to them (justifiably!!) murdering Jews and other undesirables. Having said that, liberating Russian troops at the end of the war were more feared than Germans, so perhaps Russian troops are trained to be particularly barbaric. Tbh, I can't believe what I'm seeing and hearing, just completely shocking, although I do agree that civilisation is a thin veneer. We like to think it would never be us, but, frighteningly, who knows?