Gradual privatisation of the NHS

Casdon

I misunderstood what you meant growstuff, hence the confusion. GPs who operate privately are everywhere, the difference in Wales is that no contracts are let to private companies for the running of NHS services as they are in England,

Not yet, but who knows what will happen in the future.

I don't care who owns our GP surgery. I just wish they'd open up properly for appointments. ?

DiamondLily

I don't care who owns our GP surgery. I just wish they'd open up properly for appointments. ?

You might have a serious think about 'not caring', DismondLily.

The government is depending on a critical mass of 'I don't carers' to get their privatisation plans for the NHS implemented without any real fuss from the public.

Privatisation will cost NHS more as it has to be profitable for shareholders so it is bound to be worse.

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

growstuff

Casdon

I misunderstood what you meant growstuff, hence the confusion. GPs who operate privately are everywhere, the difference in Wales is that no contracts are let to private companies for the running of NHS services as they are in England,

Not yet, but who knows what will happen in the future.

It won’t happen in Wales whilst we have a Labour Government, Health Boards have taken over the running of failing GP practices. The blood of Aneurin Bevan still runs hot here.

Governments of all colours have been wanting to dismantle the NHS for years, the internal market was a big step forward. I get annoyed when people say that speccysaves are NHS - no they’re not, it’s a private company - does it pay tax in this country? American companies have been circling overhead for many a year like financial vultures and they’re getting closer.

Dentistry will be the next service to go - Covid lockdowns and over-zealous restrictions have done serious damage. The payment of NHS dentists under the Dental Unit Scheme was deemed unfit for purpose over 15 years ago. For a root canal and crown under this scheme, and which could take 3 or 4 appointments, the dentist gets paid the same amount if she/he removes the tooth with no other treatment.

By underpaying and demoralising staff they government is creating dissatisfaction with the NHS in the population. Look what Jeremy Hunt did to junior doctors when he was Health Secretary. How many hospital beds were closed even though the population numbers were rising quickly - all part of George Osborne’s totally unnecessary experiment - Austerity. They would like us to be the same as the USA - excessive insurance premiums, over testing over treating, we are then the victims of being financially bled. And no doubt, like Matt Hancock, make sure the business goes to their pals, and they themselves go through the revolving door into lucrative post politics “employment”.

It’s the lies that spew out of all governments that sickens me.

Some hospitals need to change:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10695101/Mother-battling-cancer-scolded-NHS-bosses-complained-treatment.html

I know this hospital from when my parents were in there, so I'll say no more.?

(Sorry, but the DM is the only one without a paywall.)

Wasn't it Tony Blair that started the whole privatisation of NHS? Partial?

My neighbour had her cataracts done in a private hospital. For the NHS. She was over the moon.

It has been going on for a long time now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

DiamondLily

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

You really don't seem to understand the main issues. If a service is privatised, somebody is making a profit - and that means less is going into frontline care, unless the service magically becomes more efficient. It also means that the "expensive" cases ie. the elderly and those with long-term conditions (including mental health) will get even worse. We are already moving towards a system where people pay to queue jump and receive services beyond basic care. It's sad that some people don't even seem to care.

Zoejory

Wasn't it Tony Blair that started the whole privatisation of NHS? Partial?

My neighbour had her cataracts done in a private hospital. For the NHS. She was over the moon.

It has been going on for a long time now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

It was the 2011 Act which parcelled the NHS up and accelerated the process of selling it to the lowest bidders.

DiamondLily

Some hospitals need to change:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10695101/Mother-battling-cancer-scolded-NHS-bosses-complained-treatment.html

I know this hospital from when my parents were in there, so I'll say no more.?

(Sorry, but the DM is the only one without a paywall.)

So you think the situation would be different if this hospital were privatised?

God! It was Thatcher who started privatisation with contracting out 'hotel services'.

Labour in the Blair government didn’t support privatisation of the NHS. What it did support was contracting out certain (primarily surgical) procedures which could be done at a reasonable rate in the private sector to reduce NHS waiting lists - which worked well in achieving that objective.

The buying in of services to do cataract and (I believe) hip operations was nothing like what's happening these days. It was done to clear very long waiting lists and it made sense. There were thousands of patients waiting and private hospitals had spare capacity and expertise to do the ops. It would have taken years to train the doctors otherwise. Private hospitals are very good at doing one-off ops. Of course there's an argument that the NHS should already have been training more people, but this was a short-term solution, which was cheaper. There was never any intention to make the arrangement permanent.

Cross post Casdon. Sorry!

No problem growstuff. I was living and breathing waiting list reduction initiatives at the time!

Under Labour our local hospital closed down the maternity and children's ward. Now if we have an emergency with children we have to embark on a half hour journey to a different county.

I also was admitted to A&E during the time Tony had told us how he'd cut the waiting lists. Down to 4 hours. Sure they had. They just moved people into another room to wait.

I can't see how. the NHS can continue as it is. No matter who is in power. Billions are thrown at it. Double that and I still reckon it will fail.

Times have changed since the 40s. Sophisticated machinery, expensive drugs etc etc.

But it's a sacred cow. Tricky.

Beenhoing on for years
Had a few tests over the past 5 years and each time the unit has been staffed, managed and procedures undertaken by a private company. One company has an office in a local hospital now.

4allweknow

Beenhoing on for years
Had a few tests over the past 5 years and each time the unit has been staffed, managed and procedures undertaken by a private company. One company has an office in a local hospital now.

And some people have been making a fuss about it for years! Just because it's been going on for years doesn't mean it shouldn't stop now!

What's happening now is more than outsourcing tests to private companies. It's already beginning to affect what all of us can expect from the NHS.

Zoejory

Under Labour our local hospital closed down the maternity and children's ward. Now if we have an emergency with children we have to embark on a half hour journey to a different county.

I also was admitted to A&E during the time Tony had told us how he'd cut the waiting lists. Down to 4 hours. Sure they had. They just moved people into another room to wait.

I can't see how. the NHS can continue as it is. No matter who is in power. Billions are thrown at it. Double that and I still reckon it will fail.

Times have changed since the 40s. Sophisticated machinery, expensive drugs etc etc.

But it's a sacred cow. Tricky.

Half an hour? Sorry, but that's no distance. Many people have been travelling further than that for years. My nearest hospital with an A&E is further than half an hour away and also in a different county ... and always has been. The "official" hospitals for the clinical commissioning groups are an hour and an hour and a half away.

So what do you think should happen Zoejory? How about killing off some of the expensive patients? If you're a fit 20-60 year old you might stand some chance in this brave new world!

Yes, I have actually paid for a private go appointment and also have just joined a scheme with my husbands work, that has gp online, not that I think I should have to… it’s very worrying tbh tbat the future of nhs is not looking good at all. It’s going to be fine if you have money but if not it’s not great. Saying that, nhs has been amazing with treating my granddaughter that has leukaemia, so if it’s something very serious I am glad to say nhs is amazing. Routine stuff and go appointments are appalling though !

This should
Say private gp not go x

Billions haven't been 'thrown at' the NHS. Governments from 2010 onwards have actually kept it short of cash in real terms.