too young for prison at 18? what do you think

If you are old enough to know what you are doing is wrong,you are old enough to be punished.
She pulled her face mask down and spat on the officer,that`s a scummy thing to do,imo she should be locked up to teach her a lesson.

Governments - and certainly not this one - do not rate prevention - too long term for their taste - they are just looking to the next election. Preventive measures do not show results for many many years - but when they do, they produce benefits for generations to come. It is like planting a tree.

PECS

Luckygirl absolutely..early intervention, support for families, decent housing, work opportunities,
more social workers, community & youth workers, better child: staff ratio in schools..all these things would alleviate some of the situations that lead to higher crime rates. But they cost money and society has voted against alleviating poverty..so we have to live with the equally expensive cost that a society with high poverty rates creates.

and it s only going to get worse

Luckygirl absolutely..early intervention, support for families, decent housing, work opportunities,
more social workers, community & youth workers, better child: staff ratio in schools..all these things would alleviate some of the situations that lead to higher crime rates. But they cost money and society has voted against alleviating poverty..so we have to live with the equally expensive cost that a society with high poverty rates creates.

The prisons are insufficiently funded to provide rehab and education. And working in prisons is not popular, so staff recruitment is hard. And they are paid poorly, so become open to bribes from the drug dealers who run the prisons.

But the probation service is in the same boat, so keeping people out of prison is also a problem.

Prevention is the key - and it starts with the young families in need of support.

^I have often thought weekend detention for young ( tagged) offenders would be a possible midway. Life skills, basic
reading/writing/maths skills etc taught and a strict routine. Not quite prison but letting them know it would be tough if they were in prison!^

There were such places, HMYOI, which taught basic skills and included such facilities as sport, music, learning cookery, technical subjects etc but I don't know if there still are with all the cutbacks.

18-21 year old young men could be sent to in a Young Offenders' Institute separate from under 18s but not in a mainstream prison with older offenders.
Education and rehabilitation would be the main focus in a HMYOI

Why is there not the same facility for young women under 21?

The UK imprison far too many people IMHO. We should keep prison for serious crimes and have community service for more minor stuff.

Meryl, that is awful.

I got a very disturbing picture from a head master this week.
It appears that the pond life known as county lines to you and me are targeting children through vapes.
Vaping is now a big problem in secondary schools. The pond life are targeting children with disposable vapes: Gotcha.
Some gangs are putting spice into the vapes together the children hooked on drugs.

PECS

The judge was privy to more information than we have had via media outlets. The judge called her immature. To me that suggests cognitive limitations /SEND. In prison I suspect she could be used &/or abused and her life would be irrecoverably down a particular path.
If we want young offenders to be both punished AND to stop offending then surely we have to be less "flog 'em &hang 'em" and think of solutions to prevent reoffending.
I have often thought weekend detention for young ( tagged) offenders would be a possible midway. Life skills, basic
reading/writing/maths skills etc taught and a strict routine. Not quite prison but letting them know it would be tough if they were in prison!

I agree with you. I felt the 'immature' writings were suggesting some level of learning disability or cognitive issues, especially with abuse involved

The push to get children with mild/mod learning disabilities into mainstream school over the past 20 years without adequate support is starting to show imo.

M0nica

Given their backgrounds are all so bad, I would think that nothing could be better for them than a spell in a appropriate institution, where the regular time tables and discipline of prison life could begin to give them all their background different, whilemeducational opportunities, where they cannot bag off classes and must take a disciplined attitude and go to all classes whether they like it or not, could be the making of them.

Having sadly had a young relative of mine in prison I can assure you that where this person was:

- there were no regular timetables - they were mostly just stuck in their cells.
- educational opportunities!? - you jest!

The only education they received (and they taught themself) was in how to avoid getting done over by the drug dealers who ran the prison. Seriously - the prison officers were in thrall to these people ... ?getting backhanders to turn a blind eye? Some of the threats to the prisoner from the drug dealers were in the form threats to family (my family) outside the prison - the prison governor knew this and did nothing at all - the drug dealers are too powerful.

During this person's stay in prison, all the family (including little ones, who drew pictures) wrote encouraging letters, saying we are rooting for you, we want you to get through this and put it all behind you and live a good life, we are here for you etc. When did they see them? - on the day they left when they were put into a box of belongings. Throughout that time, no cards or letters were received. Just stuck in a box.

It was the most astonishing eye-opener for all of us. The prison system is on its knees. There was no rehabilitative or educational aspect at all; no proper medical care; no protection from violence or drug pushers.

The only people who have helped our relative to pick up life now are a voluntary organisation that was found by chance - the probation officer had not even heard of them, even though they are local - and have a 0% re-offending rate, compared with the statutory services' 64%.

Let us hope that this young woman will received the help she needs in a way that does not expose her to the sort of criminals who will bribe and threaten and teach her criminal ways.

Anyone who is under the illusion that the prison system might achieve anything in the way of rehabilitation for this woman is not living in the real world. And who can blame them? - no-one tells you how it really is. I am telling you now.

The judge was privy to more information than we have had via media outlets. The judge called her immature. To me that suggests cognitive limitations /SEND. In prison I suspect she could be used &/or abused and her life would be irrecoverably down a particular path.
If we want young offenders to be both punished AND to stop offending then surely we have to be less "flog 'em &hang 'em" and think of solutions to prevent reoffending.
I have often thought weekend detention for young ( tagged) offenders would be a possible midway. Life skills, basic
reading/writing/maths skills etc taught and a strict routine. Not quite prison but letting them know it would be tough if they were in prison!

We need to change the system, there are so many young people failed by their childhoods whose only chance of improvement is having to stay within a therapeutic regime that does its best to make up for their childhood eperiences.

Have institutions that do this.

Elizabeth27

I think young criminals should be put into prison for a week for their first crime, it may make them think before committing another one.

Elizabeth
How true. Some years ago we had a young friend who ended up in Holloway. She was only there for 2 weeks before being sent to an open prison to do her sentence.
I visited her there. The location and building ( think small stately home) was stunning.
She went on to offend again and again. She told me that if her whole sentence ( the first one) was all served in Holloway she wouldn’t have offended again because it was so awful.

If an 18 year old is old enough to drink, get married, vote, drive, and be classed as an adult, how can she possibly be too young to go to prison? The judge is an idiot.

JaneJudge you still know right from wrong at 18. I know people who have suffered abuse and don't behave in this way. Too many excuses made for offenders now. Many people live awful lives but do not resort to violence and crime.

I really dont think prison is the right place for most young folk.They learn more bad in there than they ever will on the street .Sometimes just getting as far as court will give them the wake up call they need .
After we were "victims" of a crime last year the young man was charged .His case was due to be heard in February.I wrote to the procurator fiscal and told her exactly what I said above ,but the case went to court .
We spoke to the PF on the morning and reiterated our stance.I told her if he promised to get help and could prove it I was OK with not taking it to the final step .We came to an agreement and he went home .
You may think I'm stupid and thats fine but I'm friends with a prison warden and she says that she sends them home on a Friday and they are brought back in on the Monday ...its not a way to stop crime its a school FOR crime .
I believe everyone deserves a second chance ,why ruin a life over one incident

Good point M0nica.

Given their backgrounds are all so bad, I would think that nothing could be better for them than a spell in a appropriate institution, where the regular time tables and discipline of prison life could begin to give them all their background different, whilemeducational opportunities, where they cannot bag off classes and must take a disciplined attitude and go to all classes whether they like it or not, could be the making of them.

Very sadly there are lots of young adults who've been let down by the adults in their lives and been abused but thank goodness they wouldn't all commit robbery and/or spit in the face of a policeman, who was simply doing his job.

A horrible thing to do at any time but during a pandemic when transmission was high, hence a lock down, even worse.

I think young criminals should be put into prison for a week for their first crime, it may make them think before committing another one.

If you can vote, drink, drive and marry at 18, surely you can do time for crime?

18 you can get married, join the forces, why is 18 too young. What about the policeman whom she spat at. If the systems failed her up to now do you think she will miraculously change.

She hasn't been set free, she has been given a suspended sentence and has to attend rehabilitation programs as part of her sentencing

It is interesting how we take different things from a written report as she sounds let down by the adults around her and it has been acknowledged she was abused.

It doesn't matter how old she looked