"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me."

volver

Yes of course MaizieD. Perhaps you'd also like to remind posters that insinuating that other posters are jealous liars isn't very nice?

Cheers ??

Neither is insulting those people who have worked hard for the little they have, by suggesting that they should be responsible for those who have less, or that they are selfish and trying to avoid inconvenient ‘truths’. You’re trying to level the playing field - I don’t disagree with this at all, but for that, you need top down change, not tinkering around the edges.

@ doesn't work on GN.

Friendly reminder.

MaizieD

Can I remind everyone that this thread is about the VERY rich.

Silly to be squabbling about the distribution of the scraps they leave for the rest of us...

Thank you - I’ve been trying to make this point throughout the thread. I

And @ volver. I appreciate that you’re coming at this from the point of view that you have nothing to leave in terms of property, but to suggest that people who do, are ‘rich’ is ridiculous and insulting to those people who have applied themselves and worked hard to achieve what they want out of life.

If the Tory elite were to look at this thread, they would be absolutely delighted that their plan is working. Divide and rule is alive and well.

Yes of course MaizieD. Perhaps you'd also like to remind posters that insinuating that other posters are jealous liars isn't very nice?

Cheers ??

Can I remind everyone that this thread is about the VERY rich.

Silly to be squabbling about the distribution of the scraps they leave for the rest of us...

If you own a house that doesn't mean you have nothing to pass on. It means that compared to a significant proportion of the population, you are "rich".

Not envy, but maybe an inconvenient truth for some.

Rosalyn69

Inheritance is a funny old thing. I understand wanting to provide for one’s children but…a lot of children can and should provide for themselves. We have provided for our son now. Anything we leave hi when we pass will be a bonus.
I can’t subscribe to penny pinching just to leave money to children.

As far as I can see no one is talking about penny pinching - the discussion started about rich people and inherited wealth, and has now become fixated on those who don’t have much to pass on and how everything they’ve worked for should be confiscated by the state to be redistributed among those who have even less. Why is it anyone else’s business what you do with property and possessions you’ve worked for and been taxed on until the pips squeak. A lot of these posts are coming from positions of envy. Classic Tory divide and rule - as I said before. If we’re sniping at those who have a little, we leave those who have a lot alone.

Urmstongran

Another thread about to get snippy. Like yesterday’s Grand National one.

I rather think it's another thread simply telling the truth you don't want to hear Urmsontgran.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

More tax avoidance

Richard Murphy

Sajid Javid was a non-dom and used offshore trusts to avoid tax during the pre-2008 era when the bank he was being paid a fortune to work for was lining up to crash the world economy and he expects us to forgive him because ‘it was all a long time ago’. I don’t think so.

It is not illegal to be a non dom for taxes purposes Whitewavemark2

However much you and others dislike it, it is perfectly legal and has been around since the late 1700’s, so Government after Government after Government of all parties could have changed it, but they haven’t.

Yes I’m not sure how often you have said this, but it does not make it morally right.

Whitewavemark2

More tax avoidance

Richard Murphy

Sajid Javid was a non-dom and used offshore trusts to avoid tax during the pre-2008 era when the bank he was being paid a fortune to work for was lining up to crash the world economy and he expects us to forgive him because ‘it was all a long time ago’. I don’t think so.

It is not illegal to be a non dom for taxes purposes Whitewavemark2

However much you and others dislike it, it is perfectly legal and has been around since the late 1700’s, so Government after Government after Government of all parties could have changed it, but they haven’t.

Another thread about to get snippy. Like yesterday’s Grand National one.

More tax avoidance

Richard Murphy

Sajid Javid was a non-dom and used offshore trusts to avoid tax during the pre-2008 era when the bank he was being paid a fortune to work for was lining up to crash the world economy and he expects us to forgive him because ‘it was all a long time ago’. I don’t think so.

I would thought that someone with the illustrious career in the law what we've all been privileged to hear about so regularly would have understood the importance of understanding what words mean.

Maybe not. Or maybe some people are just better at constructing false arguments that they think prove another person wrong.

Who knows.

If you say you have no loved ones then I take that at face value. Then you suddenly pull some out of the hat. You can’t have it both ways. I’m sure, given how hard up they are despite their lives of honest toil, they’ll understand when you leave everything to the cats - something you don’t deny saying.

Inheritance is a funny old thing. I understand wanting to provide for one’s children but…a lot of children can and should provide for themselves. We have provided for our son now. Anything we leave hi when we pass will be a bonus.
I can’t subscribe to penny pinching just to leave money to children.

These are the quotes you are referring to:

I've worked damn hard in life and I have no "loved ones" to leave anything to.

My perspective is that I'm not constrained by sentimental ideas of parenthood.

The "loved ones" was a reference to a post that had come before.

So you have not simply repeated what I said on this thread. You haven’t even taken what I said out of context. You’ve made up completely different sentences then ascribed them to me.

I guess we can all decide who we want to believe, eh?

You said you had no close family and would be leaving your money ‘to the cats’ home or equivalent’ earlier on this thread . You also said you didn’t understand the sentimental desire we have to leave money to children on this thread. I have simply repeated what you said on this thread. I think I’m entitled to believe what you say. Perhaps not.

How do you know what I think GSM? Seriously, how? I'll tell my nieces, nephews, cousins and aunties that I have no close family, and that maybe I'm just a sad, bitter old woman with no love in her life.

Could you been any more insulting if you tried?

Are you Andrea Leadsome?

(ps - my SIL and her husband have "worked their arses" off in retail and the NHS their whole lives, don't own a house and have nothing to leave their children. I'll just tell them they should have tried harder.)

growstuff says that, despite a life of hard work, she has little or nothing to leave when she dies and she advocates confiscation and redistribution by the State of everyone’s assets when they die. She is rightly proud of her daughter’s hard slog to achieve whilst decrying others for saying they too have worked hard for what they have and want to pass it to their children when they die. I suspect that if she had a house and savings to pass on to her children she would feel very differently. Her posts show real bitterness towards those whose work has enabled them to buy a house and amass some savings.

volver has no children or close family and who was brought up in poverty but was a high achiever and is a very intelligent woman seems not to understand the desire to leave something to your family. Again, if her family circumstances were different I suspect she would not be happy for the State to confiscate everything she has when she dies.
Evidence perhaps that our personal circumstances colour our feelings about the ability to leave an inheritance?

Dinahmo

Pammiel There is an element of luck in everything. You go for a job interview, its pouring with rain, your legs get splashed with mud and your hair is blown everywhere. You walk into the building and the panel can see you. That is enough to put you off your stride. That's bad luck.

You go to look at an absolute wreck of a house which is on view for 2 hours. The estate agent asks if you are interested and what your financial situation is. You tell them. two days later you get a phone call telling you that you can buy the house, if you want it. That's good luck.

Both happened to me in circumstances beyond my control.

You’re disabled and confined to a wheelchair but you know if you tell the prospective employer that, you’re not likely to get an interview. You go to the interview and spend most of it trying to convince the employer that you’re worth a shot. You get the job and spend the rest of your career slogging to keep up with your able bodied counterparts and end up doing ok, and managing to make a good life for yourself. That’s not luck, that’s from sheer hard work and determination. And people on here seem to think that that should be rewarded by confiscating everything you’ve worked for as soon as you pop your clogs and trusting that the government will ‘redistribute’ it fairly. I agree entirely with the above post from Doodledog. We can do better by our children without robbing from those who have worked hard. It’s nonsense.

growstuff As I stated upthread I have a grandson with severe autism and learning difficulties who may never be employable. Can you really not understand that I would want to leave an inheritance for him that would ensure a security and better standard of living than being on benefits? He didn't get an equal break at birth and his life now is not the same as most of his age group.
You say your daughter deserves her lot through hard work and stellar exam results, but she was obviously blessed with a high degree of intelligence. My grandson had no such luck, he will never, no matter how hard he works, be able to achieve like her.

I don't have anything to pass on to mine, so I've given them what I could - my love. I love my grandson very much. I wonder if you'd feel differently if you did have something to leave to your daughter and she was in my grandson's situation.

Pammiel There is an element of luck in everything. You go for a job interview, its pouring with rain, your legs get splashed with mud and your hair is blown everywhere. You walk into the building and the panel can see you. That is enough to put you off your stride. That's bad luck.

You go to look at an absolute wreck of a house which is on view for 2 hours. The estate agent asks if you are interested and what your financial situation is. You tell them. two days later you get a phone call telling you that you can buy the house, if you want it. That's good luck.

Both happened to me in circumstances beyond my control.

Every baby can have a chance without taking from the childless, the child free and/or those who have chosen to save rather than spend.

I couldn't agree more that the UK should do better by our children, and a lot more could be done to make life fairer for adults, too. But there is no need to take people's houses and savings to do it. A better tax system would redistribute wealth better, and more fairly, particularly if the proceeds went towards education and housing.

I firmly believe that people should be able to spend their money as they wish, and that it is not up to the government to dictate how they should live, or to encourage one lifestyle over another by taxing or confiscating their assets if they haven't spent it in accordance with a particular diktat.

volver

Pammie1

volver

Look after them while you're alive, if you have to. Where I come from, the "Average Joe" doesn't worry about passing things on to his loved ones. He worries about putting food on the table tomorrow. Maybe our ideas of what makes an "Average Joe" don't quite match.

See, the difference is that I think making the world a better place for everybody isn't a waste.

Some people haven’t got the means to look after loved ones while they’re alive. We’re not talking about rich people here - we’re talking about people who have scrimped and saved to make their lives better. It’s not a one size fits all scenario and in many cases, a modest property inheritance is all some people have to pass on to their children. To suggest that the state takes effectively confiscates everything you’ve worked for after you pass away and ‘redistributes’ it to the needy is a race to the bottom.

Did you understand my post at all?

I understood perfectly well thank you - did you understand mine ? You’re proposing what is effectively communism and it doesn’t work. Who overseas the redistribution of the wealth from confiscated property ? The government ? The same government that squanders our taxes instead of putting them to the common good ? It seems anyone who disagrees is judged as greedy and uncaring and I suspect, as others on the thread have, that it comes from envy. Rather than go for the real wealth, it’s easier to target those who have a little more than you. And yes, I can put hand on heart and say that the modest means I have are entirely because I and my partner worked for it. We weren’t handed anything and opportunities were as a result of hard work, not ‘luck’.

Pammie1

volver

GSM I think we all know now that you paid a lot of tax. So did I. A lot. In fact, you could probably say I worked my a**e off.

So I might ask, Is that what I worked for? Other people’s kids who can use or waste my earnings as they choose?

Yes. Yes it is. If I'm dead and don't need it, they can have it.

So no thought of looking after the ones you love then - just I’m dead so I don’t care if everything I worked for gets wasted’. I’m not buying it. It’s state robbery and thankfully it’ll never happen. See what’s happening here ? Instead of advocating a distribution of wealth at the top, where the real money is, we’re fighting about the average Joe not being able to pass on his assets to whoever he likes. Divide and rule, as I said upthread.

I think very much of the ones I love. I don't have anything to pass on to mine, so I've given them what I could - my love.