Death spiral of the Tory Party

Do you have a secret double life as a journalist WWM2?

I’m just reading “failures of state” the inside story of Britain’s battle with coronavirus. I suggest reading this before you vote in any elections.

It's an excellent book, Mojomum. I bought a copy over a year ago. Written halfway through the pandemic!

I'm sure the authors would have much more to add now.. What with the government completely washing its hands of c19 and pretending everything is over while the infection rate rockets, and, I notice, so do the deaths. And children being put at risk of lifelong debility by a disease that attacks internal organs when mitigation to improve ventilation in schools and enclosed spaces would be a game changer...

When I see this type of thread I tend to assume it is written by a journalist looking for fodder. I have many opinions, most wont be agreed with here. Unfortunately freedom of speech means everyone can twist/spin/lie about any person and any situation. In the end you dont know what or who to believe and I have to go back to my principles and how I was brought up to work hard, pay my way and be honest.

nomadsoul

The Guardian? No bias there then! rofl

Of course, there's no bias at all in the Sun, the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph...

Do you think that everyone should think like you (and the government), nomadsoul?

Would it be nice to make thinking differently illegal? Like in Russia...

I’m just reading “failures of state” the inside story of Britain’s battle with coronavirus. I suggest reading this before you vote in any elections. It demonstrates the total incompetence of our current government, a disregard for the truth about how bad things were and a callous disregard for the suffering and the predicted number of deaths. Not to mention the corruption of awarding contracts to friends and the lying about ‘world beating’ test and trace. One thing I had not realised was the sending of large number of personal protection equipment that were sent free to china in the early stages of the pandemic, leaving our own vallient nhs staff to struggle wearing bin bags as a form of protection as we did not have enough pipe for our nhs, staggering. I don’t think you could make this up.

maddyone

Even I, being a bear of very little brain, thought Livvie meant after the pandemic that the hospital was used to catch up with outstanding surgeries.
Maybe I’m wrong.

I was referring to the Nightingales which were supposedly to take covid patients 'during' the pandemic, as extolled by LauraNorder.

I'm glad that the Exeter one was developed and is making an excellent contribution to health care now. But, as, as livvie, and others, note, most others were handed back virtually unused.

Amused to note that Ben Bradshaw is a Labour MP.

The Guardian? No bias there then! rofl

The London Nightingale, at the Excel centre, was huge.

But, due to being unable to staff it, the place only ever saw 20 patients.

A complete waste of money.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56327214

Sorry about the misunderstanding Livvie and thank you for the research. I think of Ben Bradshaw as hard working, which is, indeed, admirable.

Eh? I don't live there.
Just looked up Exeter's MP and discovered it is Ben Bradshaw who I admire.

Livvie

Good thinking bear of little brain.
Most other Nightingale sites had to be handed back, this one grew from nothing in next to no time, and benefits from not having the pressures of an A & E.

I would imagine that was "well done, local Trust/local Authority" rather than a government move, wasn't it Livvie?

I wonder what flavour your MP is.

Can’t give examples of levelling up at this stage because, as stated, the pandemic changed priorities.
The intention to spend big, level up, increase opportunity was thwarted by the pandemic. LauraNorderr Mon 11-Apr-22 10:51:36

That sounds scary to me. Are you saying that you and others who voted for "levelling up", indeed, are still enthusiastic about it, are without any idea what the Tories meant?

Surely, it would have been laid out at the time of the election. Yes, they might now feel they needed to come back and tell us what they have had to drop, reprioritise, etc., but there must have been a plan you could use to decide on.

Otherwise, you might just as well, err, vote on leaving the second largest trading block in the world without being told what would happen when you did.

No one would do that to their country, surely?

I am well aware of the difference between the two.
Ukraine are at war, there is a humanitarian crisis. Those escaping from the war zone to safe countries are being helped financially by many other countries including the U.K. we are then opening our doors after checks. We are still at war with terrorism, with people trafficking, with illegal entry of criminal gangs. Therefore, while Ukrainian people are safe in Poland, Moldova and other countries bordering Ukraine and we are helping financially, I see no reason not to check.
As for checks to fraudulent claims for furlough and other money available during the pandemic, we were at war with an unknown and deadly disease so time was of the essence and therefore money wasted. There was no safe country as a holding zone while checks were made.

LauraNorder

"Huge amounts of money were spent trying to keep people safe and fed. Huge amounts later to try to rejig the economy. Money wasted through fraudulent claims was due to the need for speed. Had the government held back waiting for the proper checks they would have been creating hardship for millions of genuine needy people."

The govt increased (temporarily) Universal Credit by £20 per week. A pittance

The SEISS grants for the self employed were based upon 3 years tax returns - which were already on HMRCs computers
so no need for further checks there.

The SEISS grants were not available to all the self employed as WWM has mentioned many times, with justification.

The furlough payments were made to companies to cover, in part, staff wages.

It is the various loans that were subject to fraud and that is down to insufficient checks by the banks. They had no need to do them since the loans were all backed by the govt. Checks could easily have been made, but they weren't.

I'm not quite sure where money was spent in trying to re-jig the economy. Of course re-jigging would take place after the pandemic but I haven't seen much sign of that. One thing that would have been a great help to businesses was to not increase the fuel duty or power prices. Those two items will place an increased burden on everyone (apart from the Sunaks of this world - they won't notice the price difference) because the cost of all suppliers are substantially increased.

Good thinking bear of little brain.
Most other Nightingale sites had to be handed back, this one grew from nothing in next to no time, and benefits from not having the pressures of an A & E.

Even I, being a bear of very little brain, thought Livvie meant after the pandemic that the hospital was used to catch up with outstanding surgeries.
Maybe I’m wrong.

Now when the government insist on checks for Ukrainian people wanting to come to the U.K. in order to keep us safe, they are accused of not going fast enough. Cries of ‘let everyone in and check later’ from the very ones who now say that checks on furlough claimants should have been more stringent.

That has to be one of the most extraordinary conflation of ideas that I have ever seen ?

I think someone else has told her the enormous, yawning gulf of the difference between the two...

Livvie

^Nightingale hospitals were a complete waste of money becausethere wasn't anyone to staff them^.
Might need correcting.
NHS Exeter Nightingale all new state of the art diagnostics, CT and MRI scanners, the latest orthopaedic and opthalmic machinery, fluoroscopy, operating theatres etc.
All up and running efficiently, fully staffed, slashing waiting times (knee jobs in and out in a day).
Not bad from an old Homebase building.

What, during the height of the pandemic?

I thought that by espousing "levelling up" Johnson was trying to beat the Labour Party at their own game. For a time levelling up" was his mantra, just like "take back control" was. He seems to have a knack for coining these snappy little phrases.

Nightingale hospitals were a complete waste of money becausethere wasn't anyone to staff them.
Might need correcting.
NHS Exeter Nightingale all new state of the art diagnostics, CT and MRI scanners, the latest orthopaedic and opthalmic machinery, fluoroscopy, operating theatres etc.
All up and running efficiently, fully staffed, slashing waiting times (knee jobs in and out in a day).
Not bad from an old Homebase building.

Once again jumped on a few points without properly reading or understanding.

I think people do read and understand LauraNorderr but they disagree with points you raise and try to provide information to demonstrate their take on what you've said. You often cover several points in each post that it's impossible to respond in general, especially if one disagrees with several of the issues so it makes sense to respond to key points.

To try to respond to the whole I would say that you seem very fearful of 'others' and very trusting of the Tory leadership. This to the extent that you are willing to give a 'less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party' another chance even though in so many of their actions they have let the country and themselves down.

? not me but DD.

Now when the government insist on checks for Ukrainian people wanting to come to the U.K. in order to keep us safe, they are accused of not going fast enough. Cries of ‘let everyone in and check later’ from the very ones who now say that checks on furlough claimants should have been more stringent.
With respect. The Ukraine refugees situation is a totally unique situation. It’s a war. We say we are ready to welcome them…..we need to put our money where our mouth is, there are people waiting to welcome refugees , my nephew for one, who has a family waiting to come over from Poland ..he is paying for their accommodation there while nitpicking checks go on her including the local council wanting to check the gas certificate….but not actually getting on with it.

It is possible that we could be seeing the beginning of the end for the Tories.

In the first round of the French Presidential election the Socialists gained 1.7% of the vote. Ten years ago Hollande became President.

The once strong Republican Party gained 4.8% of the vote.

In the UK the Whigs were once a strong party, as were the Liberals. Both parties provided the UK with PMs.

So there is hope for the UK yet.

Oh, that's clever

I believe that WWM2 has a relative who works in vaccine development. If she knows better than me, I'd like to learn.

Instead of, say, opening my mouth and letting my belly rumble, as some people do.